Shooting "Overloads".

[Larryjk]

A recent customer was incensed that I suggest he back off on his loads or change to a cartridge that gives him higher velocity without risking his rifle and safety of those around him. I was doing barrel work on three of his rifles and noticed that all had rings in the bolt face around the firing pin hole. I asked him why he loaded so hot which was definitely in excess of loads in the manuals. He insisted he had to have the "extreme high velocity" to make the long shots on coyotes. He also has set his triggers so they often "slam fire". The sear engagement is inadequate and the weight of pull is set so light any bump fires the gun. He said he wants the trigger very light so when he touches the trigger it goes.
He was pi---- when I told him I make a note on the repair log that his triggers are unsafe and I discussed it with him. I think he is an accident waiting to happen.
Fellows, if you have to go to these extremes to kill a coyote, or anything else, is it really worth it. I would never hunt in the same area as this fellow.

[Adam Helmer]

Larryjk,

It takes all kinds to make a world. We all have a right to own guns and some folks should not be armed like this fellow. High velocity loads are NOT necessarily the most accurate loads. You covered your posterior by citing his triggers are dangerous.

You did all you could by discussing the matter with the gun owner.

Adam

[Joe Boleo]

There are reckless folks that drive cars, drink to excess and engage in other risky behavior. I only hope they do not hurt some innocent bystanders. Take care...
Joe

[Dan Morris]

ONLY time I ever shot another guys hand loads ended in disaster.........I still
have the halves of the cylinder of a Combat Masterpiece.......was a kid then....dude loaded some "hot" loads with Bulls eye.......he apparently double charged one...........I keep them as a reminder to do it MYSELF.........never had a bobble after that! Common sense goes a LONG way!
Dan

[Mr. 16 gauge]

Gotta kinda wonder if he was your customer 20+ years ago, if your advice would go heeded......look at all the 'information' (albeit some of it is pure B.S.) available today: internet, youtube, umpteen hundred cable channels, ect, ect. I got a 2009 Winchester brochure last week; all I can say is "How in the heck did we ever manage to kill game with our puny 30/30's, 270s and 30-06s and plain old soft point hunting ammo?!" Gotta have the latest "short magnum" with "fusion technology, bonded core bullets" to kill a field mouse!

I'm glad you did what you did....you sound like the kind of gunsmith I would like to deal with. Two thumbs up to you!

[skeet]

When he first started into shootin and reloadin. Wanted the hottest of the hot and all the velocity (and recoil) he could handle. I started him into shootin shotgun. Good grief he shot like an old farmer. After he started gettin the flinchies he started to listening to me. He is one of only 2 people's reloads I will shoot now. Mine are the other ones. He shoots some of the best well made loads I have ever shot. Back in Md where I used to live he's now the go to guy for info on reloading. But even at his worst he wasn't unsafe with his guns. Just had to have the hottest loads around way back when. He learned it really wasn't all that necessary. And just to let ya know..he don't shoot like an ol farmer any more either. Now I know I have a Weatherby or 2 and a couple other maganumbs. But factory velocities are just fine with me...usually a bit less. And especially with a coyote or whatever..dead is dead..

[Larryjk]

Thanks for the "back me up" words. I learned a long time ago a prairie dog never knows how fast the bullet was going that gets him. I feel that a shotgun patterns better with loads that are not "sizzlers" and I am not afraid to shoot against the guys loading up their shells with lots of Longshot. I know some guys tht shoot loads that sound like a battle ship firing off. A young gal ( a pretty good shot) was having her Mom load 12 gauge for her to shoot on the trap team in college. Her gun was shooting open.(Rem 331). I asked her to bring me her gun and a box of her shells and we would go to the trap club together to test it. I knew what the problem was as soon as I fired one shot; it kicked like a mule. We disassembled a few shells to get the powder charge weight and then checked the manufacturers manual. Her loads were three grains over the max. Problem solved. She said the new loads were really nice to shoot.

[Mr. 16 gauge]

The only time I feel "the need for speed" with shotshells is when I am shooting steel shot for waterfowl hunting....then I want a load around 1500 fps. Steel loads definetly kill better when loaded to this velocity. However, I think that you can over do steel speeds as well.....don't see a need for the 1800+ fps some guys are posting on the internet!

[Rocky Raab]

Larry, I know at least one 'smith who has tags written up. They say, "Upon initial inspection, this gun appears to have been subject to unsafe reloading practices and/or modifications. For liability reasons, no work was or will be performed on this firearm."

He enters a reference to that statement in his in/out log as well. Just in case. That's the kind of customer he neither wants nor needs.

[Rapier]

AAA+ for Rocky!!

90% of all product liabilty suits can be avoided by simply refusing to get involved in a bad situation to start with.
Best,
Ed

[buckhunter]

Stupid is as stupid does. Good job of CYA. I'd refuse to work on it.

[Dutchman01]

I once knew a guy that was fiddling around with duplex smokeless powder loads in a blackpowder revolver. My guess is he isn't with us anymore. People sometimes take strange and dangerous things for reasons that may make sense only to them.....or the voices in their heads.

[Big joe]

UNFORTUNATELY...There is always a handful out there that do their best to give the rest of us a bad name! What a moron! UUUGH!!!

[captain2k_ca]

I run some pretty hot loads in my .204. But nothing over any published info I can find.

And I always work up to the maximum...and in most of my reloads the max loads have not been the most accurate anyways!!!

[PJgunner]

Originally Posted by captain2k_ca

I run some pretty hot loads in my .204. But nothing over any published info I can find.

And I always work up to the maximum...and in most of my reloads the max loads have not been the most accurate anyways!!!

That is generally good advice, but not always correct. Several older cartridges including the 7x57MM Mauser, 8x57MM Mauser and 30-06 for one reason of another are not loaded to their full potential fo fear they will be used in one of the weak guns originally chambered for the round or in the case of the 8MM, different bore sizes. (.318" vs .323") The 7MM in weak Spanish Mausers and of course the 06 in low number Springfields are other examples.
However, take a modern rifle such as the M700 Reminton or Model 70 Winchester which come chambered in some serious magnum rounds and tell me why they cannot shoot the above mentioned cartridges loaded to the same basic pressures as those "modern" magnum rounds?
Sadly, data for those modernized loads for those rounds is not available. One can only try and work them up by the seat of their pants which, while possible for an experienced handloader, is definitely not recommended for those just starting out and frankly even highly experienced loads should think twice. I have worked up some very warm loads for my Winchester M70 Featherweight, primarliy a 140 gr. Nosler Ballistic tip at a bit over 2800 FPS. That same load though is too hot in my custom FN Mauser and I'll have to start all over again for that rifle.
My hot loads are worked up during the heat of an Arizona summer with temps running anywhere from 100 to 115 degrees. Those loads should be safe during the cooler weather of hunting seasons. it does require checking the sight at the temps of the hunting area though, preferably a few miles from the actual hunt area.
Paul B.