Wolf Issues!

[Larryjk]

There are a significant number of wolf sightings down across central Wyoming from the source of Yellowstone. It is breeding season and the wolves are crowded in Yellowstone and spreading out in search for new pack territories. The feds and the states cannot agree on the management of these animals and they are spreading out to where they are going to become a huge problem. In the recent past, they weren't too big a problem because they were a rarity. Now they are becoming common and they will start eating things that will create attention. Some folks are starting to handle the problem on their own initiative. You know;SSS or Shoot, shovel and shutup.
Dead wolves are beginning to show up and the USFWS is "determining" cause of death. That should be interesting to hear. I am on a board that deals with predatory animal management and we gather information on what is happening. The gov't trappers have to pull all control devices within 5 miles of any wolf sightings, so it has a bearing on coyote control. The average annual coyote take from this county was over 2,000. This will impact the take.

[Mr. 16 gauge]

Just out of curiosity, what are the number of outfitters & ranchers in this area?

[skeet]

Larry..you ain't seen nothing yet! It is gertting out of control up here in northwest Wy. I was elk hunting on Friday and the fellow I was hunting with told me he hadn't seen a wolf or even a track where we were hunting. I swear this is the truth..we didn't go 50 yds when what we did we behold but a pair crossed the trail we were on..only a few seconds because they never even saw us(I don't think) as they were on the trail of a deer. That's why we saw the wolves because we had seen the deer first. It was running and we thought we had scared him out. Guess not. The wolves are in the Bighorns and in the Pryors as well as the Beartooths...as well as spreading through the Bighorn Basin. I was talking to a gummit man not too long ago and he hinted that they had ..taken care... of a couple very large coyotes(ahem) a mile or so from home here. I think they ate somones dog..in their yard if i'm not wrong..not an ankle biter either. There is some instances of SSS in this area for certain.. Course the cattleman's coyote bounty is going on now I think

[wrenchman]

It is a huge issue here in mich they have now moved in to the lower part of mich when they start eating fluffy we will see things change.

[skeet]

I didn't know they had moved down out of the UP..You know..I actually think the world is a better place when we have animals like this..but there has to be a little bit of common sense thrown into the mix. We need to make the wolves fear people a bit more thanthey do. If you shoot a wolf or (God forbid) a grizzley..the Federals come at you with teeth bared..and it could cost you time in jail. We really need a little more balance than we have. The touchy feely types have way too much control.. And most of 'em do not and will not have to live with what they have created. And they tell us how we have to ..which leads to the ol SSS

[Tater]

It's getting pretty bad here in Idaho, too. The Frank Church Wilderness, where I used to elk hunt, has the densest population of wolves in the state. You can imagine the impact this had on hunting in the area. We had a wolf hunting season a couple years ago and I thought it was a great success but the eviros thought different and lobbied to have the relisted. Buncha BS if you ask me. Hopefully F&G can figure a way to manage them before they get outta control

[skeet]

Tater..To be really honest they are already out of control..with no natural enemies other than humans they only have disese to control their numbers..and eventually starvation..but with the number of cows sheep elk and deer etc in the areas of densest wolf population..I doubt if they will starve. And with the enviros in control..we aren't gonna be allowed to "hunt" them

[fabsroman]

Originally Posted by skeet

Tater..To be really honest they are already out of control..with no natural enemies other than humans they only have disese to control their numbers..and eventually starvation..but with the number of cows sheep elk and deer etc in the areas of densest wolf population..I doubt if they will starve. And with the enviros in control..we aren't gonna be allowed to "hunt" them

In nature, they would eventually starve, just like the deer and elk do when their populations get out of whack. Thing is, when things get tough the wolves will start eating people and pets, and that is where the problem comes in. As long as they can stick to deer, elk, and other big game, they are doing their job. Granted, sportsmen don't want to hear that, but I am sure that in Maryland they would bring back the wolf to counter the deer problem if they were sure humans and pets would not become wolf food.

The problem is balancing everything out and keeping people safe in the meantime. We don't really want the wolves to decimate the elk, deer, etc. herds, but we also do not want to have those herds out of control. USFWS is doing a terrible job, but such is life.

[Larryjk]

Mr. 16 gauge, From the end of the Wind river Mtns. to the Colorado border is all ranch land and outfitter area. It has a high % of BLM land and USFS. I have heard that some folks (unknown) have taken matters into their own hands and some wolf bands have been eliminated. As Skeet mentioned, SSS is going to be the deciding phrase. Unfortunately, the state game wardens won't all turn their heads if they see it happening. And, unfortunately, it will be of necessity.

[skeet]

Fabs..people have been controlling the elk deer etc herds for a long time. When the deer started to go awry in Md they upped the limit on deer. The herds are out of control in Md mainly in the areas where they can't be hunted or where landowners do not allow hunting..Like the Loch Raven area north of Baltimore. The people liked seeing the deer in the area till they ate everything edible around their houses.. I have seen the area with a browse line at 6 ft. The wolves are a different problem. If you had seen this area esp Yellowstone 15 yrs ago you would understand. Wolves were here. They didn't need to be (re) introduced...and the protection accorded the animals has hurt game and nongame species in this area to an unbelievable level. It is a matter of governmental control(of people) by listing the wolf as an endangered species..not a necessity to protect protect the wolves. It would be almost impossible to wipe out the wolf in today's environment. They were hunted with gun trap and poison for 2 centuries and not eliminated..That could not(and should not) happen now. But the rules that we have to live under now are detrimental to other animals..ranchers hunters and even hikers. Seems as though the gummit thinks that the wolf is much more important than people. Mismanagement is abysmal from either side of the coin....and the rules we have now are mismanagement big time.

[Rapier]

I can not understand your concern. I mean Susie Q Jones of PETA in her NY, NY 5th floor apartment swears that wolves are OK for you to live with. I am sure she has talked to each and every wolf and they all understand the difference between your grand child and a deer fawn. She has everything under control.

I want Susie Q Jones and her sister from Washington DC to come to my farm and help me with the training of my untreated canines. Then when they get their skinny tree hugging collective butt down here they can tell me what to do about safe guarding my family on my property, right after their first night outside playing with the doggies. They get a fly swatter, a pork-chop necklace, and the night shift with no matches. I will spell them in the morning.
Ed

[Catfish]

I definately understand what Skeet said about loveing nature and likeing to see all animals around. We don`t have wolfes in Ohio yet, but a few years back some beaver move into the creek in my bottom. I watched them that summer, but when we went to shell the corn and had put abt. 10 acures of corn under water I desided it was time for them to go. I can see where wolves could be alot worse.

[fabsroman]

Originally Posted by Catfish

I definately understand what Skeet said about loveing nature and likeing to see all animals around. We don`t have wolfes in Ohio yet, but a few years back some beaver move into the creek in my bottom. I watched them that summer, but when we went to shell the corn and had put abt. 10 acures of corn under water I desided it was time for them to go. I can see where wolves could be alot worse.

Yeah, 10 acres of corn under water does not compare to being killed by wolves, or worse yet, having your wife and kids killed by wolves. I'd take the beavers over wolves any day of the year. Skeet is right about them having to have healthy respect for humans, and fear is great too.

[skeet]

Speakin of beavers..when they were kinda new in our area..they built a dam next to a county road..flooded it..County got a backhoe down there and cleaned the dam out..2 days and flooded again..got hold of the state ..they said they had to leave 'em alone...blew the dam with giant powder..no good again...before the state could get a judge to stop 'em..a good ole boy went and took care of the problem..shotgunned 'em kinda permanent...he was a county roads worker..and was tired of havin to keep messin with 'em. He got a bonus that year.

We were duck huntin a beaver pond..game warden checked us an told us he could cite us fer shootin over bait...darn beavers climbed the hill next to the stream they had dammed and cut corn stalks off in great numbers and plugged the dam with it...my Lord there was a bunch of mostly wood ducks in there...Seriously..well over a 1000 wood ducks staying in tha beaver pond.. the woodies looked like ants combing that woods for acorns..There was a heck of a crop of them too. Game warden was kind and laughed at us when we looked the sitation over. We hadn't ever gotten too closeto the dam not wanting to scare the ducks. Next day the game warden bagged up 4 guys..trespassing..unplugged guns..lead shot with 38 birds..only 30 over the limit..2 went to jail one killed himself and the other one got off with a slapped wrist after he ratted out some other drugger friends on where he got the marijuana they caught him with. So ...don't think beavers can't be dangerous in some instances..LOL

[Mr. 16 gauge]

Thing is, when things get tough the wolves will start eating people and pets, and that is where the problem comes in.

I don't think things have to "get tough" before they start eating people/pets.....wolves, like other predators, are opportunistic, and will take an easy meal where ever they find it.
Read about a family that watched in horror in the U.P. of Michigan as a wolf chased their Labrador puppy under the house and proceeded to eat it. The family heard the whole thing under the floor boards! Have to believe the story is reliable....it came from a DNR blotter. Typical goverment response to stuff like that is "we'll reimburse you....maybe". Tired of that crap; don't mind wolves, but don't think that states that have a heavy reliance on outfitting/hunting & farming/ranching are going to get a bit pissed when states like NY, CA, MD, ect, are dictating just how this problem really doesn't need solving when it doesn't affect them. We have all been told that coyotes wont' bother you; that they are more afraid of you than you are of them.....if that's the case, then how did that female Canadian singer get killed in an Ontario park? Apparently, those coyotes didn't get the memo from Peta!

We have a problem with yotes in the city where I live....eating pets (small dogs and cats)....several dogs have been attacked. Animal control will not do anything about the problem.....(responses vary, but it ranges from "we don't have any money" to "that's an issue for the state" to "they are more afraid of you than you are of them"). In light of such B.S., some citizens have taken matters into their own hands and are practicing "SSS".....I say "good for them"! If the government (who is here to "help" you, or so they say....) won't help the matter, then it is your civic duty to take matters into your own hands.