shooting death

[skeeter@ccia.com]

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Man charged in shooting death after Pa. bar fight
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Posted: Sunday, November 18, 2012 9:55 am | Updated: 10:00 am, Mon Nov 19, 2012.

Associated Press | 0 comments




A man has been arrested in the shooting death of another man after both were kicked out of a western Pennsylvania bar.

Twenty-five-year-old Ian Frey of Ellwood City is charged in Lawrence County with criminal homicide and first-degree murder in the death of 38-year-old Keith Knox of Wampum.




Authorities say they were ejected after fighting inside Weisz's Hazel Manor Restaurant and Lounge in Ellwood City shortly before 2 a.m. Saturday.

Lt. David Kingston says Frey got into his car and Knox walked up, opened the door and began punching him, and Frey fired four shots with 9 mm handgun. Kingston says all of the shots were fired within the car.

A listed number for Frey could not be found Sunday and it was unclear whether he had an attorney.

[skeeter@ccia.com]

This is a local story. For those that carry firearms. This shooter for one is called the suspect and the fighter called victim . Who is the victim here? Now given they in a bar and we all know how that ends in lots cases However, following up on the story... Seems fight start in bar. Both kicked out. shooter got in his car to leave. Man that was shot was with his friend who told him to 'leave him alone and lets just go'. The man ignored those words and went up to the car, opened his door and proceded to beat the man inside his car. The man pulled his (permit to carry) gun at this time and fired, killing the man doing the assulting...Why then is he in jail, without bond and charged with first degree murder?.. The man doing the assulting is also 2x bigger than the shooter and a known trouble maker in town. Now if any one of us were in walmart, someone opened our door and started to beat us, wouldnt that be reason enough to protect ourselves? I would. And would not then the person inside the car getting beat be called the victim? Now why does that change just because you used you legal CC?...I know the shooters family well and this kid is not the run of the mill punks out there..Just defending himself from a guy that opened his cardoor and started pounding on him..and protected himself.

[kt]

that story may have more to it than what is stated right here. How ever all that the authorities need to know here is that you were leaving a bar near 2am and shot somebody you had a disagreement with. Im sure somebody with law enforcement backround can shed more light on this but im seeing 3 things here, beligerent enough to get in a heated debate, weapon and in the car after leaving a bar at 2 am. None of these in combination bode well for the CC. One thing i love about concealed carry is that in an effort to keep yourself out of situations where you may need to defend yourself, you keep yourself out of situations where you other wise shouldnt be (drinking and driving with a gun in the car). I've always also thought that any alcohol on your breath could lead to your decision to defend yourself being questionable in front of a jury. If this happens as you are buying groceries at walmart, aim for center of mass! Just my two cents, its a horrible story for all involved.

[Adam Helmer]

skeeter,

Excellent Post! This nasty legal snarl is why I have not been to a bar this Century and am always home in bed by 8:30 p.m. Who hangs out in a bar until 2:00 a.m. IF they really had a life?

As Ben Franklin said, "Early to bed and early to rise makes a man healthy, wealthy and wise." He should have added to be out of bars BEFORE closing time.

Adam

[skeeter@ccia.com]

I have to agree with the bar factor in this one. I have always told people if you hang out in a bar it is just a matter of time when things will blow up on you somehow. I just told a young cousin of mine working on his 3rd divorce, If you find them in a bar, you will loose them in a bar but he never listens..anyhow, bar parking lots are still jammed every night. Adam, those were my dads favorite words..Early to bed, early to rise..etc..he died at 53, broke but he was a wise man..but was up early and early to bed..lol..anyhow do like the opinions and look for more but even if he would get off on the shooting, I bet he will still face the wrongfull death suits from family and pay that way. I just wondered where the innocent till PROVEN guilty comes in. Would we all have to sit in jail till a jury hearing before we would even be able to post bond? Etc?

[buckhunter]

One aspect of the Massachuetts carry law and I do agree with it is "no weapons in bars, churches or schools". Now watch the turds fly.

[Adam Helmer]

buckhunter,

I agree with no guns in bars or schools, but recently in Colorado Springs a nut case headed for a church to shoot up the place. A female off duty cop settled his hash before he entered the church. In Michigan a nut case entered the church and shot the pastor. I see no reason not to carry in church. There is no reason to expect it is a safe place with nut cases on the loose. I carry in church in case of need....

Further, a Permit to Carry is just that: a permit to carry since all the nut cases carry even in "Gun Free" zones like in the theater in Aurora, Colorado.

Adam

[popplecop]

Alcohol and firearms do not mix. Anyone who goes out drinking should not be carrying a handgun. This will be an interesting case to follow, but the problem is how accurate will the media with the facts.

[kt]

bars are one things, but as far as schools and churches i dont understand. its a great law.... um except for the ppl who dont follow laws... (no turds flying). i hate being told where i can defend myself. with bars its like hey you wanna drink leave it at home, hey you wanna carry, stay out of the bar.. but the other two make no sense.. read a story about a lady who watched her family gunned down because by law she had to leave her gun in the car. how terrible. if i cant bring a gun you dont need my business

[skeeter@ccia.com]

I have to agree about nut cases going to where they know nobody is alowed to carry so they will not get shot back at. And alcohol does not mix with anything....and this kid did not have it in the bar...had it in his car...and the fight started over a pool game I hear. However, so far, the guy should of not followed him outside the bar and after he got in the car to leave, he opened the door and pounded on him..that is when he grabbed his carry and fired..in his car..not in the bar...But as we all know, how much did the alcohol have to do with him thinking clear....ah,,good example is my own little brother..could not keep him out of the bars and he got into the painkillers on top of all that..one day..took a 38 to his chest...end of that..sad...but he not listen..stay away from booze.

[Rapier]

I am with you on this Adam. I do not believe I have set foot in a bar since I got my CWP and that was a long, long time ago. If I want a drink, it is at the house, no driving and no guns. However, on the charge, it seems like second degree at the most, as the shooter obviously, at least by the story, did not plan to shoot the dude.

Before I closed my lumber company, thanks to the peanut farmer, we had a bar right across the street from our yard. Just about every Monday I arrived to yellow tape in the parking lot or around a door, next door. The fools could not stop shooting and knifing each other over pool games. I avoided that "center of entertainment" like the plague.
Ed

[popplecop]

I'll have a glass of wine while dining out, but am not carrying a firearm. If I'm going to have a drink, no firearms and never have more than two glasses of wine anyway. If I'm going to have a good burbon it is at home.

[skeeter@ccia.com]

Update on the shooting story. Still has not gone to court. They also have over $50g paid out so far and the Atny now wants another $7500. He is home now waiting trial for murder 1. Talk is they have to please both sides of the fence and is why got charged in first place with the hope a 1st degree will get dropped. Pa law suppose to protect you from civil suits if found not guilty. They wanting him to plea to manslaughter or lesser charges... do less time but he feels he did not provoke the whole thing and why confess to doing anything other than protecting yourself. He does have brass knuckle imprints all over his face etc.. They also tried to say the boy tried to get away but photos of tire tracks in the snow show he never moved the car... The man shots friends also took the brass knuckles, cleaned out his pockets of anything he should not have had on him prior to police showing up.. pictures of pockets still turned inside out etc.. I don't know.. I just do not have faith in the legal system having dealt with kangaroo courts over the years while driving trucks and police that swear on a bible to tell the truth and lie out their assep just to win. I find out more will post.. I just wish the guy good luck with they system.

[skeeter@ccia.com]

old post back in 2012.. Still have not gone to court. What happened to the speedy trial thing? Someone said will be before Christmas and we figure oh oh this is election year, look out. Will see. He has been offered all sort of things if he agrees to doing wrong.. said no way. Lawyer still sucking money out of them by the thousands.

[Rapier]

Could be that this attorney is like a local around here, postpones, postpones and then goes in and asks for a dismissal based on a failure to provide a speedy trial. 9 out of ten he gets dismissed.
Ed