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#1
05-18-2005, 06:37 PM
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Discharge at gunshow!
No charges from accidental shooting at ExpoMart gun show
Monroeville police don't plan to file any charges in relation to a shooting that took place on Saturday at a gun show at the ExpoMart. The shooting appeared to be accidental, according to police. They said that at about 11:25 a.m., John Hannah, a 61-year-old resident of Tipton and vendor at the show, handed a 9-mm semi-automatic handgun to John Bogesdorfer, 61, of Monroeville, a visitor at the show. While in Bogesdorfer's hands, the gun went off and hit Walter Gladowski, 65, of Monroeville, in the shin, even though guns on display at such shows are not supposed to be loaded. Gladowski, who was standing about 32 feet away from Bogesdorfer when the gun went off, was taken to Mercy Hospital, treated and released. His injury was not life-threatening, police said. Monroeville police concluded the shooting was accidental because Bogesdorfer and Gladowski didn't know each other.  web page
__________________
"Rent 2, get 1 free." 
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#2
05-18-2005, 09:59 PM
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So the gun just went off? That's neat, no gun's ever gone off on me without me pulling the trigger...
That said, this article makes it sound like it's ok to shoot someone so long as you don't know them... 
__________________
When they come for your guns, make sure you give them the ammo first. Tolerance is the virtue of a man without convictions.
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#3
05-18-2005, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
__________________
"Rent 2, get 1 free."
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#4
05-19-2005, 10:14 AM
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No, it just means the police won't charge the shooter with a criminal offense.
But two other things are almost sure to result from this event: One: the wounded guy will sue the bejeezus out of the shooter, the dealer, the facility and the gun show promoter. He'll win. Two: the gun show's insurance company will cancel not only that promoter's insurance, but will likely cease insuring ANY gun show promoter. For about two years now, the last insurance company willing to carry gun show liability has said, "One more and we cancel all gun show policies." Without that insurance, no promoter could risk holding a show, and no venue will allow one to be held on its grounds. And that my friends means the end of gun shows.
__________________
Freedom of the Press Does NOT mean the right to lie! Visit me at my Reloading Room webpage! Get signed copies of my Vietnam novels at "Baggy Zero Four" "Mike Five Eight"
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#5
05-19-2005, 11:33 AM
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"One: the wounded guy will sue the bejeezus out of the shooter, the dealer, the facility and the gun show promoter."
 "Two: the gun show's insurance company will cancel not only that promoter's insurance, but will likely cease insuring ANY gun show promoter. " 
__________________
"Rent 2, get 1 free."
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#6
05-19-2005, 12:33 PM
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Rocky is right about the guy suing the guy who pulled the trigger, the owner of the gun, etc. Thing is, it really depends on what the guy's injuries are as to how much money he will get. If the bullet merely grazed him, he isn't going to get much.
Now, if the bullet shattered bone and surgery was required, he will get a pile of money. If an infection results from the surgery, his attorney will sue the doctors too and add the damages from the infection to the lawsuit involving the gun discharge. It gets really comlicated, but it all depends on bodily damage as to how much this guy is entitled to.
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The pond, waterfowl, and yellow labs...it don't get any better.
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#7
05-19-2005, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
"He's now unable to function normally, and you must financially accommodate him..."
__________________
"Rent 2, get 1 free."
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#8
05-19-2005, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Aside from that, I could see why they guy would sue the shooter. I'd be pretty PO'ed too about someone negating to clear a firearm before pulling any triggers or anything. I'd be just as mad if they HAD cleared it, and dry fired it in my direction anyway, just poor handling. What I personally wouldn't do is sue the Gun Show itself. It wasn't directly their fault, and my conscience wouldn't let me collect from someone who wasn't directly responsible. I do understand that not all people have conciences. The end of gunshows would be a pretty sad thing to happen, because there are still a few good ones out there. Sadly, the only one that ever comes through here is generally over priced and mostly composed of NRA guys walking around harassing everyone to join (nothing against the NRA, they're a great help, but 15 guys going person to person in a room of 50 people or so can get annoying) and cotton candy/popcorn/peanuts. Regardless, I hate to see anything that's on my side of this issue to go.
__________________
When they come for your guns, make sure you give them the ammo first. Tolerance is the virtue of a man without convictions.
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#9
05-19-2005, 01:25 PM
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Not to seem hard-hearted, but I'm not concerned about the guy who got hit.
Or at least I'm concerned less about him than I am about the demise of gun shows. Guys, I'm serious. This could spell the end of them - all of them.
__________________
Freedom of the Press Does NOT mean the right to lie! Visit me at my Reloading Room webpage! Get signed copies of my Vietnam novels at "Baggy Zero Four" "Mike Five Eight"
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#10
05-19-2005, 01:59 PM
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Rocky,
You could care less about the guy that got hit because it is not you and you make a portion of your living at gun shows. Most people have trouble putting themselves in the other person's shoes. Like I said in the thread "Maybe I'm Thinking Wrong," we all like to say that we will take the noble approach (i.e., step in front of the bullet that is headed for a family member, push the little girl crossing the street out of the 19 wheeler's way even though we know we are going to get hit and die). I believe in the actions speak louder than words statement. Nobody ever grows up saying he wants to be a criminal or a thief, and we likewise go through life thinking that we will always do the right thing. However, we are not in this guy's shoes. What if he is a construction worker and he is out of work for 3 months while his leg heals. During that time, he loses his job and he loses the house he, his wife, and his three kids live in because it is foreclosed on for non-payment? Ultimately, the guy that fired the gun was negligent and the shop owner was negligent. The guy that fired the gun didn't adhere to a couple of safety rules 1) muzzle control 2) treat every gun as if it is loaded 3) check the chamber of any gun when it is handed to you and 4) never pull the trigger unless all of the above have been done. The shop, through its owner or employee, assuming it is incorporated, was negligent in handing a loaded gun to this guy because they should have checked the chamber first. Now, a plaintiff's attorney will most likely sue the shop and the gun show, you know why, because he doesn't want to take the house of the poor bastard that pulled the trigger. We know that the shop and the gun show are more likely to have insurance to cover this sort of thing versus the poor guy that merely pulled the trigger. Nothing is as easy as it seems, and sometimes there is no win-win situation.
__________________
The pond, waterfowl, and yellow labs...it don't get any better.
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#11
05-19-2005, 02:00 PM
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In Texas not only are guns required to be unloaded but they run cable ties through them in various methods to prevent them from being loaded unless they are cut off first.
BTW Rocky has a danged valid point. GoodOlBoy
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(Moderator - Gear & Gadgets, Cowboy Action, SouthWest Regional, Small Game) GoodOlBoy@huntchat.com For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. - John 3:16 KJV Then I commended mirth, because a man hath no better thing under the sun, than to eat, and to drink, and to be merry: for that shall abide with him of his labour the days of his life, which God giveth him under the sun. - Ecclesiastes 8:15 KJV "The gun has been called the great equalizer, meaning that a small person with a gun is equal to a large person, but it is a great equalizer in another way, too. It insures that the people are the equal of their government whenever that government forgets that it is servant and not master of the governed." - 40th President of the United States Ronald Reagan 1911-2004
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#12
05-19-2005, 05:22 PM
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Fabs, I'm as clear as you are about who was at fault and who was the immediate victim. No arguments from me about your other points, either.
But I'm also looking at the wider circle of victims - everybody who attends, enjoys, sponsors or deals at gun shows. Every single one of us got "hit" by that recent bullet. I'm afraid it'll be more than a flesh wound for the rest of us, is my point.
__________________
Freedom of the Press Does NOT mean the right to lie! Visit me at my Reloading Room webpage! Get signed copies of my Vietnam novels at "Baggy Zero Four" "Mike Five Eight"
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#13
05-19-2005, 05:38 PM
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you know I am probably being totally in the clouds about this but they said the guy was in his late 60's both the shooter and the shootee. Maybe the guy that got shot will have enough sense not to sue anyone. I mean albiet tempting and he'll prolly get bombarded with calls from lawyers Maybe he will be the better man and not persue it
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I am PETA's #1 Member People Eating Tasty Animals 
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#14
05-19-2005, 07:49 PM
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Both the shooter and the dealer should be beaten about the face, head, neck and chest with a large stick.
__________________
USAF Retired  Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat. Theodore Roosevelt Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things
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#15
05-21-2005, 01:55 PM
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Isn't it possible a pseudo-customer from one of the anti-gun groups could have slipped a loaded round into the firearm? I don't mean to sound paranoid, but I just can't imagine anyone doing this. I don't believe any of God's children are that stupid.
Best wishes. Cal - Montreal
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