gas prices

[Rocky Raab]

Hey, I thought about YOU just the other day!

Welcome back, bud.

[skeeter@ccia.com]

Buy a horse...yea we were just talking about the Amish and how lucky they are about now..I bet the cost of hay would sky rocket to $6 a bale then...and feeding my 300 horses in my truck for $3 seems pretty cheap then.. ...anyhow, I moved closer to my work by 1/2 the miles..even close enough that I had walked and rode a bicycle before...my house before was paid for and I managed to pay this one off too...just before my work place moved 25 miles away to another county because of the taxes here...so what was I to do then?..we car pooled but in the trucking industry, not everyone gets done at the same time of the day like a 9-5 job..so we were forced again to fend for ourselves..and I think everyone here at h/c is a survivor or you wouldn't be here..we have all bitten the bullet so to say to get this far but you all have to admit there is needless overkill on things like taxes, prices of gasoline, housing, etc..I just think the gov can give us a gasoline tax break now in the time of need to help keep the economy going. Yea I chose to buy a truck..after owning a few impractical mini vehicles..how about the vw beetle?..I owned 2..room?..none...would be kind a tough putting a 200lb truck tire in the trunk or on the roof..bigger vehicle...needed..not wanted..I think we all have a gripe at the government here when they jump at the chance to help the world and not the homeland..so asking them to do so isn't out of the question..and I agree those in the south were told weeks ahead water 30' + were heading their way..so I would have pushed my grocery cart with my belongings to high ground instead of waiting for the hand out...true, we all want...the opp is there for all of us..just need to step aside and let ourself pass..cause we are in our own way..unless we depend on something else like gasoline....that someone else controls...oh..they fine ya for letting your horse poop on the street here too....lol...and you're not allowed to recycle it in the fields either because envirowhackers say so...we need a good lawyer to set them people straight...know of any?...lol..pump oil in Alaska...yee ha..

[Lilred]

Ya know..I just got to thinkin bout somethin readin these here posts...talkin bout how we all made decisions etc...and that high gas would affect our lifestyle etc.

See..ya'll are fergittin bout the poor folks. And yer also fergittin that all decisions, good er bad, was based on what you thought at the moment you made that decision. Take me and my sister fer example.

I graduated from high school. I went to werk. I have 2 wonderful children..a bunch of beagles..a lil chunk of fertile dirt I call home..and I am not rich. Nowheres near rich.
But I listen to my dogs run at night while I watch the lightin bugs and the stars.I fill my own freezer w/ meat & fish.I watch the coons, owls, possums, ducks and beaver doin their normal things while catchin all them fish. I have trapped, raised baccer, played banjo, cut wood, plowed fields and raisin 2 kids and a pack of pups.
My sister graduated from James Madison Univ. w/ a masters..mba er bma er whatever it is. She werks fer Suntrust bank in some huge downtown Richmond buildin makin almost twice than I do a yr. She just bought her house..no kids..but a tv the size of Texas.
Not to mention all her fancy gadgets, gizmos and 500$ pocketbooks..(which I almost whooped her with the dam thing after she told me how much she paid fer it)

These were our decisions..and we now know..that I probaly shoulda went to college. And my sister now knows..that the stars are more beautiful on the riverbank than they are on tv. And she also knows that her great comprehension of books aint gave her nuthin but a profound loss in common sense. That poor girl aint got the common sense god gave a rock..and would never survive if hard times came upon her.
So..point bein..is that everybody's decisions would probaly change if they knew then what they know now..and nobody could ever cover every hole in the water bucket iffin it's shot w/ a load of buckshot. In other werds..you caint sit there and say
"oh dear, I caint live near the ocean cause of a hurricane..I caint live in the mtns cause of earthquakes..I caint live in the north cause it snows and I caint buy a truck cause in 20 years gas'll be 300$ per gallon"

So..fer you high falooters..let's git scientific-like.
Remember hypothesis and that there educated guess??
You cannot have a 100% probable outcome.

Some people caint afford to live closer to werk...I caint.
Land in my county is now 1,000$ an acre. 1 county over..it's runnin 20,000$ an acre. This is true...ask anyone from here.
(Trex can vouch fer me)
Some people caint afford gas cause gas prices and such went up..and their wages aint.

Some people can afford both of the above mentioned and complain anyway.
And..most good folks in this werld gits screwed.

Therefer..Lilred's Lesson concludes with this...there is no blame to put on yerself and none on this here Federal U.S. of A government. There is also all blame placed on you & the federal U.S of A government. And just like me and my sister...it's all a warsh.

By the way..we can have our cake and eat it too..lean close and I'll tell you Lilred's secret in life...ya ready?
Put the most enjoyment in things that money caint buy.
That's what my Pop told me when I was a pea sprout..and that right there is the very reason why I could care less bout what my sister or anybody else has.
That and do the best you can do..cause on counta..that's all any of us can do. You caint shun any soul..poor ner rich..fer doin their best..even iffin they fail at it.

[Rocky Raab]

Seems like there's a whole lotta wisdom in that lil red head.

What was that song? A Country Boy Will Survive. Gals, too.

Maybe that is a lesson we all need to re-learn.

(Sweetie, your line about the stars from the riverbank is pure poetry.)

[PJgunner]

Well Fabs, you say I/we should cut back on our driving. That's a good idea. Now suppose you tell me how? My 1993 toyota 4x4 pick up has 75,600 miles on it. It will be 12 years old come October. (Mileage rounded up to estimated amount to October.) That's a whole whopping 6300 miles a year, average. My wife's 1998 Explorer, also a 4x4 as we had planned on using it for travel at retirement, has a whole 27,800 miles on it, again estimated tot eh month of October as we bought it that month. WOW! a whole 3,971 miles a year. As for travel, one son lives in Las Vegas, I have a daughter in Logan Utah, another in Albuquerque New Mexico and one more in Houston Texas. I have ten grandchildren I cannot afford to drive to and see.
My house and vehicles are paid for. Medical bills and soaring proerty taxes cut into the lifestyle. Cancer ain't cheap to live with, take my word for it. Betwen my wife and I, just the co-pay on our meds runs close to $500 a month, so yeah, I'm gonna *****, piss and moan about gas prices. With what we have left, we can go to the store for groceries, the pharmacy to pick up meds and go to the doctor. Oh, and we have no credit card debt. My wife and I are nearly in our 70s. There's no way, considering our health problems that we can find jobs, even if we were capable of doing them.
I douibt if they will ever lower taxes on gas, not even temporarily.
However, there are a few ideas I have that I think would make a difference.
One, I think it's Shell that's doing it, but they have their most profitable refinery in california. They make double digit profits from it, yet they want to shut it down and dismantle it. They refuse to sell it to someone else. Don't make sense to me.
I was listening to a radio program, and they had someone from the oil industry on. Did you know that they make 42 different blends of gasoline? Some states like California require one type of gas for enviornmental reasons another state wants something else. Notice, that the oil companies refuse to suggest that the states use the gas that pollutes the least nationwide, and ALL the states use that gas only. Just that alone could bring about close to 25 percent drop in the cost of refining gasoline.

So yes, I think that the oil companies are being too greedy. The cost of fuel goes up, the cost of delivering good goes up, people cannot afford the higher prices of said goods, and eventually, the people will finally see the light. just before it blows out.
Paul B.

[fabsroman]

PJ,

You are indeed in a tough situation, but you are in a situation that I think causes another problem for Americans. The health care situation. Everybody wants to live forever, yet they think this is a right. They think they should have the best insurance and the best medical care, even if they are poor just because they live in America.

35 years ago, a year before I was born, my grandfather was diagnosed with a condition that required surgery. The alternative being death. He had no health insurance and his family, my father included, could not afford the cost of the surgery. So, he packed his backs and went back to Italy to die. My dad doesn't sit and p!$$ and moan about the situation. It was what it was.

LIFE IS NOT FAIR. The rich get cancer, the poor live long lives. The cost of health care goes up because the quality goes up and the cost of gas goes up because too many people rely on gasoline. We are all dealt cards and have to live with them.


Lilred,

I agree completely with your post. Seven years ago, if I knew house prices were going to more than double to today's prices, I would have bought then. I didn't so I am dealing with the situation I have now. If you think land is expensive in your neighboring county, it is about $250,000 an acre around here.

As far as what makes people happy, I agree with you too. Some people need $500 purses, others need the stars, and yet others need both to be happy. I read a sign outside a church once that said, "Make money less of an issue by having less wants." From my previous posts, you can see it is kind of tough for me to do that, but I do believe in that statement.

For everybody, the gas prices have hit me too. For instance, my dog is at my parents right now and my dad was supposed to bring him up here because we were going to work on my garage. However, he made other plans while I was in New York this weekend. So, if I want to pick my dog up, I have to jump in the truck and burn about $15 of gas to pick him up and I do miss him. So, I feel the pain of the gas increase. I just don't see how my complaining about the gas increase, the cost of health care (which I used to pay $257 a month for health insurance before I got married), and the cost of housing is going to change anything, but I guess we all feel better if we complain about things.

I don't know how many of you watched the Matrix, but in that make believe world, the machines created a world for humans that was a utopia. No pain, no want, and supposedly humans could not deal with it. Sad but true.

[Lilred]

On the insurance thing..it would appear to me that the poor should be complainin more than the rich.
If a man werkin at the same place as you is makin 3 times what you are..his health insurance is say fer example..400$ a month.
Meanwhile...yer scrapin the bottom of the barrel to git the money to pay that same $400. a month.
Most people take the " I hate them health insurance bashturds" on a personal level...and I am guilty of that very thing.
Fer instance..my old ins. company would not pay fer my husband to git a CAT scan of his head when the doctor thought he might've had a brain tumor! I was so mad I could've beat Dale Jr at Daytona runnin on my own 2 feet. I called em up and said...
"Insurance is fer fools like me that CAINT afford them dam dr bills!"

See..I took it personally. We NEVER go to the doctor unless something is really wrong..so the 1 dam time I needed the insurance..it would not insure me. Hell..all the money I paid..I done paid fer that cat scan 4 times over.
I told the insurance company that too.
But..I was wrong fer gittin so riled..in a way.
Cause..it's what happens when hospitals dont git paid..prices go up, people abusin the system..etc etc etc..the vicious circle thing.
However.. you do have the right to expect their services in your time of need..and I did..and I dam well got it.

As fer as dyin...there are probaly alot of people out there who think it is their right to live er whatever..nobody wants to die..
I think it's a matter of instinct to survive..some just aint as aggressive at it as others. Some accept it..some refuse it..and some depend on others to keep them alive as if they owe it to them. But with the progress that has been made..alot of people survive cancer..and it certainly is worth at least tryin to git rid of it. That simple reason is why I dont rightly complain about my health insurance costs..because somewhere..somebody's mama, pop, sister, brother, daughter er son is dependin on it to survive..and git that chance that maybe they can live to see another day.

I dont fancy that sayin.."It is what it is"
"It is what you can make of it"

Dont get me wrong Fabs..you got a good head on yer shoulders.
Please dont think that I'm bustin on you..cause on counta..I aint.
Yer right...life aint fair. And we are all dealt cards..and we should have to deal with them. Agreed. Me personally..I'm just different is all.

My theory is: We are all dealt cards...and iffin you dont like em..beat the hell outta the dealer till ya git a hand you can play a good game with.

[fabsroman]

Hey Lilred, I was sitting there reading your post and agreeing with everthing you were saying.

Just don't understand why you thought you were busting my chops. I deal with insurance companies all the time that deny my clients' claims. I am dealing with one right now that is completely denying a claim of my client wherein my client was rear-ended. Insurance companies are like other businesses. They are trying to make their customers happy and to turn a profit at the same time.

I don't fancy the saying "It is what it is" either. I think "It is what you make out of what it is." For instance, gasoline is what it is, but in the end, it is what you make out of it. Travel less. Ride a bike more. Schedule things so you can take care of more than one thing at a time. For instance, when I leave the office now, I make sure that I have at least a couple clients in the same area to see on the same day.

[BILLY D.]

Originally posted by fabsroman
Billy D,

Sorry I made you have to use a sad face, but I am glad that I didn't disappoint you or surprise you with my response. Everybody expects the federal government to solve their problems, but that just cannot be done. There is no way to make everybody happy.

Alas, you guys complaining about the gas prices will receive a reprieve.

"Bush also issued a memorandum saying the hurricane had created a "severe energy supply interruption" and formally authorized a drawdown of oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve. He said that the disruption had resulted in a severe increase in the price of oil products and that the price rise could damage the national economy." Quoted from a Yahoo article.

While cleaning up the kitchen and garage tonight, my parents have always said that Americans don't know what hard times are, and I think the rise in gas prices and Katrina pretty much prove that. My parents do not think that Americans are tough enough to make it through tough times, and they might actually be right. Don't get me wrong, my parents are diehard Americans, but they also know what it is like to live in tough times. Billy D, are you old enough to remember the Great Depression? I would think that the generation that lived through that might understand what hard times are like. I dated a girl once that had grandparents that lived through the Great Depression and even though they had a good amount of money, they saved everything that MIGHT be of use.

My parents are the same way as that girl's grandparents and I am always telling them to throw that crap out because the cost of storing it is more than the cost of buying it, but I guess I am only thinking of the here and now. What happens if you cannot buy that stuff anywhere. Then it becomes priceless.

Heck, I don't think I am as tough as my parents.

I guess it is a good thing we can still get gas. Otherwise, Danica would not be able to pursue her rise to fame. LOL

FABS

THE ONLY GAS YOU WILL FIND IN DANICAS CAR WILL BE IN HER INTESTINE AFTER SHE FINISHES HER LUNCHTIME BURRITO, WHICH I DOUBT SHE PARTAKES OF BEFORE RACING. SHES A SMART GIRL. FLATULENCE WHEN YOU ARE WEARING A NOMEX SUIT IS NOT AN EXPERIENCE YOU WOULD LIKE. BELIEVE ME. I HAVE PERSONAL EXPERIENCE.

LAST TIME I CHECKED INDY CARS ONLY RUN ON METHANOL. MUCH SAFER?, DOESN'T HAVE NEARLY THE EXPLOSIVE EFFECTS OF GASOLINE IN CASE OF A CRASH. ALTHOUGH IT IS FLAMABLE. THATS WHY YOU SEE THE GUYS WITH A WATER HOSE WHEN THEY DISCONNECT THE FUEL HOSES DURING A FUEL STOP.

[fabsroman]

Billy,

As soon as I read the first sentence of your post, I knew I screwed up.

So, how much does methanol cost and is there any possibility mere mortals could use it?

Last I checked, methanol burned clean and essentially flameless. That is why a driver can be on fire and nobody else will even know it. Saw a CSI episode on it once too where a guy died from burning to death in an open wheel race car.

[BILLY D.]

shucks pardner, darned if i know how how much it costs. but i'll check it out.

when i was a youngin' and was into racing a gallon of nitromethane was $5.85. i suppose in todays money that would be about $25- $30 dollars a gallon.

but i'll look around and see what i find.

[fabsroman]

$25 to $30 a gallon wouldn't be any good unless we could get about 300 miles a gallon out of that stuff.

[BILLY D.]

well i did some research and sit here flabbergasted,no pun intended, at what i found out. the burn rates for nitromethane is something like 4 gallons per second, thats right 4 gallons per second, you don't need to wipe your eyes.

now that figure is for a race engine that is typically 8.9 liters and produces 6000hp. i know you are a ford fan and if you follow drag racing you know or have heard of john force. so if i figure correctly he uses approximately 16 gallons of nitro per quarter mile run.

i also found out nitro cost $27.39 per gallon. that was a good ewag on my part when i said $25-$30 dollars a gallon. whenever i want to figure out what something cost in the old days i simply multiply times five. works just about everytime.

also applicable is that both nitro and methanol are highly toxic and poisonous to the human body when not properly utilized. they also burn drier and require different oils for proper engine lubrication. it is my understanding that this is the reason synthetic oils became the hauteur for almost all of racing. methanol can be produced for about 40 cents a gallon but has less energy content than gasoline so therefore it takes more of it. one draw back of methanol is it is a byproduct of natural gas. well, now we know where this is going to go don't we? as soon as we start using alot the price will immediately jump and triple or quadruple as soon as there is demand. gee my profit margin isn't high enough, so sayeth the producer.

i can't even start to reproduce all i read about these fuels so i trust you can google them up.

as far as you and i utilizing methanol or nitro it could be a diminishing return. as far as nitro i think it would be a bust,too much enginge tuning.

for methanol the future is much better. there are already vehicles that use a 85 0/0 methanol 15 0/0 gasoline mixture.

the bad features of methanol are it is corrosive in fuel systems and there are starting problems in cold weather. that would be a treat up here when the temp hits -40 degrees. that is one good thing about ethanol gas we get here. it breaks down water content in the gas if there is any. but we north dakotans know how to take care of that problem should it arise.

also there are vehicles that can burn a 50-50 mixture of methanol gasoline. but they are highly modified from the factories.

well bud my good hand is killing me, so i got to get off this keyboard before i start cramping up.

have a good one.

[fabsroman]

Hey Billy, what happened to the caps?

Thanks for the info buddy. I am seriously looking at all my options for our next car. Luckily for me, we won't need a new one for some years to come, but I want to be prepared should the need arise unexpectedly (i.e., my Taurus has 133,000 on it and her Sonata has 73,000 on it).

I definitely want to get something that gets more than 30 mpg or runs on some fuel cheaper than gasoline, more efficient than gasoline, and/or more abundant than gasoline. Ford use to offer a motor in the Taurus that was a flex fuel motor. I don't know the specifics of it, but it was available when I bought my Taurus. Haven't seen it as an option on the new one though, but I will confess that I haven't looked that hard.

Right now, I am leaning toward the Escape hybrid that gets 40 mpg highway. Ideally, I would like a hybrid or flex fuel Explorer or Expedition, and I am hoping Ford gets that in the works soon so that the kinks can be worked out before I have to buy another car.

Who knows, maybe ethanol will be the fuel of choice later on or I might just have to go with pedal power and put some racks on my bike.