Model 70 USMX Sniper rifles

[Critch]

In the books on Gunny Hathcock they talk about some Model 70's that the Marines used early in the Vietnam War. They were chambered for the 30-06 and i believe had Redfield scopes. Does anyone have a good picture of these rifles? What few pics i've seen have been fuzzy or taken at such an oblique angle you can't tell much.

Did they have bull barrels or a tapered heavy barrel?

Anyone know some books that might go more into their description?

[Adam Helmer]

Critch,

I recommend the book, "The Complete Book Of U.S. Sniping" by Peter R. Senich. ISBN 0-87364-460-3.

The book is a very good read and you will find the photos you asked about.

Adam

[Critch]

Thank you. I've gotten a call into the local bookstore for it. Thank you again.

[BILLY D.]

Hi

Books by Maj. Plaster, great name for a sniper huh?, and Maj. Land are good reads also. Both those guys served in 'Nam, and know what they are talking about.

Sorry but i forgot Lands first name. Being senile is hell. All that Jim Beam is taking it's toll. Plasters first name is John.

For other books look in the snipers web sites. Beware of some of the sites though, there are a lot of wanna be's out there. To look at all the folks who propose to be snipers the Army and Marines must be training 3 out of every 4 people to become snipers.

I worked on a insertion team in 'Nam and I seen mainly Win model 70's in '06 and 300 Win Mag, but that was just in our area of operation. In the early stages of the war the snipers were buying their own scopes in Taiwan, and yes many of them were Redfields. And yes i know you can't hit $hit with a Redfield, but please tell Gunny Hathcock that when ya meet him upstairs. I rather imagine he will be amused.

If you like sniper stories google Lyudmila Pavlichenko. She was a chick in ww2 and a Russian sniper. She was quite adept at using a Mosin rifle.

[Aim to maim]

Originally posted by BILLY D.
Hi

To look at all the folks who propose to be snipers the Army and Marines must be training 3 out of every 4 people to become snipers.

Also parallel to that concept is the apparent predominance of snipers among Axis forces during WWII. Every WWII Mauser or Arisaka keepsake relic I've ever seen was described to me by its owner as a German or Japanese "Sniper Rifle". No wonder the Axis lost the war, they apparently had no infantrymen, only snipers.

[Gil Martin]

Critch,
I scanned a few chapters of "One Shot-One Kill" by Charles W. Sasser and Craig Roberts about snipers in WWII, Korea and Vietnam. In the section about Sgt. Hathcock, he mentions his Winchester Model 70 with scope and 84 rounds of "match-grade 30.06 full-metal-jacketed rounds of ammo." He does not say there was anything special about his Model 70.

The History Channel ran a few shows about snipers in Vietnam. They mentioned that the military collected Remington and Winchester rifles and Redfield scopes from PXs and BXs to meet the needs of snipers in the early days of the conflict. All the best...
Gil

[Jack]

"And yes i know you can't hit $hit with a Redfield, but please tell Gunny Hathcock that when ya meet him upstairs"
Those few of us who are old enough to have used many 1960's era scopes know that the Redfields of the day were quite good. The first quality scopes at that time were Redfield, Bausch & Lomb and Leupold, in no particular order.
Burris didn't exist, nor did Pentax, Nikon, and a number of other scopes that are considered good ones today.

[Critch]

Thanks for the info folks. My interest is mainly because I have been looking for a project to do with an old Model 70 Winchester action I have. I wanted something different and this may be what I do for a long term project. The action, trigger and stock are all that is salvageable, the barrel is shot.

A recreation of an early sniper rifle would be cool. Personally, although I'm a pretty good shot, my very limited experince at extreme ranges has taught me a lot. Two weeks ago I went out to a high line right of way on my property and I was shooting at some silhouttes at over 600 yards with a 308, not easy to hit. Even the slightest gusts of wind made all the difference. I'm amazed at the stories of these guys (and some women) who have made almost impossible shots, under very harsh conditions.

It's been hard to find really good pictures, but the few I've found seem to show a heavy tapered target barrel, and either a Redfield or Unertl scope. I would have to go with the Redfield, it also looks like dovetail mounts of some sort. In one picture the rifle is obviously blued and not park'd.

I know what you mean by all those snipers out there. I'm 53 years old and my 27 years of military has mostly been supply, AMMO, and training. I'm still amazed at the number of snipers in their late 40's who served in Vietnam, (do the math). They must have been 16 or younger.

Thanks for the info, I'll try to keep everyone up date on my project.