Powder Measure or Scale for hunting loads?

[Adam Helmer]

A good friend insists on weighing EVERY charge for his .30-06 for his deer hunting loads. I began reloading in 1967 with an RCBS press and an Ideal #55 powder measure and a powder scale. I set the measure using the scale and test drop every 10th or 15th charge on the scale to ensure the measure is on.

Is there a need to weigh every charge?

Adam

[Mr. 16 gauge]

Is there a need to weigh every charge? Probably not, but I think you will get better accuracy, instead of 'good enough', if you do.....I also weigh every powder and shot charge for my hunting shotshell loads, just because I feel things are more consistant that way.

....now for breaking clays, I use the charge bar and bushings.....that's 'good enough'

[Jack]

I wanna say I do not weigh every charge for hunting loads, but that's not quite 100% true.
For the vast majority of hunting loads for my rifles, I do NOT weigh every charge. When I have the powder measure set correctly, and throwing consistent charges, I then load my cartridges, check weighing every 5th or 10th charge.
I should say I try to avoid the long grain stick powders, and I prefer ball powder when I can find an appropriate one.
When I do use a long grain stick powder that tends to hang up or bridge in the powder measure, I weigh every charge.
With the new short cut powders out now, I don't have to do as much weighing as I used to.

[Dan Morris]

I load IMR 4350 in the 06......I generally weigh the first 3 charges..RCBS measure and scales....as these are hunting loads, I check every 5-10 charges for grabs.These are in a Rock Chucker... this has served well for about 50 years of loading.
Dan

If I am using a HOT load ..that is safe in MY rifle...eg..257 WBY...
I check every load...it is loaded to .04 grns.

[skeet]

In precision hunting loads for my rifles I weigh the charges. For most of the rest I use a Dillon 650 or 550 and use the powder measure on the loader. As far as shotshell loads I use the bushing charges in both shot and powder. Oh I work the load up and make sure it is right...by hand of course. From that point on it really isn't worth the time or trouble to weigh powder charges and unless loading large sizes of shot in large quantities I use the bushing after I make certain it loads what I want. There are small differences in loads with the shotgun anyway and if the load is set up correctly no reason to weigh shotshell loads. I used to load my shells for waterfowl and I shot an awful lot of shells at ducks and geese. Guided waterfowl hunters for 34 yrs and used almost all reloads for 25 of them...except what I could scarf up from the hunters I took out. I even loaded steel for a while and finally realized that the factory was making loads as good or better than mine....so I started using factory steel and then I found hevi shot...whoa...I never have looked back at steel since then...except for a case of steel 6's I loaded up years ago for teal. Make nice cripple loads. Good for teal at the 5 to 20 yds I shoot them. In the first dozen years I reloaded shot shells, I would make a close guess that I loaded 750 to 800 thousand shells. 500 thousand were our own once fired empties. Man was I glad when they started makin Winchester AA shells. Didn't have to iron or wax 'em like ya did paper shells. and no base wads blowing out. I even sent some waterfowl loads I had made up to HP White labs to have 'em checked for velocity and pressure. They were loads right from the loader. No weighed charges either.

[Gil Martin]

I set up three scales and calibrate them to a specific weight and trickle in three charges. I dump the powder into a sized and primed case and immediately seat the bullet. I can look at the loading block and verify that the loaded cases have powder. Where I reload, there are two tomcats that watch me load. I cannot have cases with powder sitting in a tray awaiting bullets.

When loading shotshells, I check the powder bushing with a scale and them load using the charging bar and bushings. All the best...
Gil

[Contenderizer]

My thoughs are --

1) The smaller the case the more important the accuracy of charge.

2) Measure every charge when loading to "Never Exceed."

[Rocky Raab]

Give Contenderizer a cigar.

Unless you're talking about a full-custom target rifle and all the attendant brass prep, case weighing, bullet sorting and all the rest of the accuracy hoohah, then weighing powder isn't going to make much difference.

In a factory rifle, with average brass and hunting bullets, you cannot detect an accuracy difference until powder charges start to vary by more than 1% of the charge. With 50-grain charge weights, that as much as a half grain variation before you can see an accuracy change that's attributable to the powder.

In smaller cases, with smaller charges, that 1% allowance is much smaller, so that in a Hornet with a 13-grain charge, the charge weight has to be kept to about 0.1 grain (which is why some people claim the Hornet isn't accurate. It is, but you have to be MUCH more precise when reloading for it.)

Note that we are talking accuracy ONLY here. PRESSURE can spike with smaller than a 1% powder variation - especially if you are loading to never-exceed levels to start with.

[Adam Helmer]

Rocky,

Point well taken; my neighbor does not segregate and weigh his cases, bullets, ream flash holes, etc..... His loads are about mid-point in the powder recommendations for the bullets he loads.

Adam

[denton]

Except with unusually fine rifles, at 500 yards and beyond, there is simply no reason to individually weigh charges. It is a waste of time.

Variation does not add linearly, and that makes some counter-intuitive things happen. The variation introduced by switching between common powder measuring methods is practically undetectable, either in accuracy or in pressure.

I ran the math for the 30-06 and for the 223. Because of the special way variation adds, you would have a hard time distinguishing between a lot of ammunition with powder measured on a laboratory scale, accurate to a milligram, and ammunition loaded with a system with 2.5X the variation I have measured in actual loading scales and powder measures.

Here's the other shocker: The Lee Perfect Powder Measure, dispensing ball powder, is at least as consistent as my Hornady scale, which is significantly better than the digital scale I tested.

[Dom]

Good points both ways, I just hit the dispense button on the RCBS Combo, works great and each charge is weighed. By the time I drop the charge, seat bullet, etc, the next one is ready, Waidmannsheil, Dom.

[denton]

For the masochistic among us, here's the math for the 223 Rem...

First, we have to choose a representative standard deviation to evaluate:

Commercial 223 ammo I have tested has about 35 FPS standard deviation. My ordinary handloads have about a 25 FPS standard deviation. With a little work, I can get my handloads down in the teens, and with a lot of care, I can get them into single digits. So, for the example, pick 25 FPS as reasonably representative.

My Lee Perfect Powder Measure does pretty well at throwing ball powder charges. The standard deviation of the random error for that device is about .04 grains.

To a good approximation, a grain of powder in that cartridge is 100 FPS. So the standard deviation of the FPS error induced by switching from a perfect, ideal measuring system to the Lee Perfect Powder Measure is about .04x100 = 4 FPS.

Variation does not add linearly. To see the final result, you have to take the square root of the sum of the squares, so:

Final SD = (Ideal SD^2 + 4^2)^.5

Final SD= (25^2 + 4^2)^.5

Final SD = 25.3 FPS

Switching from an ideal, no error powder dispensing system to the Lee Perfect Powder measure increases the SD from 25 FPS to 25.3 FPS. That's nearly impossible to detect.

Doing the math again for an SD of 12, representing very carefully made ammunition, your SD increases from 12 to 12.65. Again, it's nearly impossible to detect.

A similar argument holds for pressure. The SAAMI specs have a safety margin built into them that assumes a 4% SD.

The day I did that math, I quit hand measuring powder. It's a CWOT.

[skb2706]

I got a lot simpler formula than that.

Total number of rounds used per year hunting big game....in a great year, one state may total a whole 10. For this I will hand weigh each one, how long can that take ?

For everything else it depends on the powder. For loads that take WW748, RL7, AA1680, H380 and the like I do not. I will weigh one every 10 or so.
For extruded powders like IMR4064, 4350, 4895 etc. I will weigh everyone.

[Catfish]

I have been loading on a 550 Dillon since the 1980`s. When I started I would check every 10 th. load. Over time it went to every 50 th. and now to set and forget. I have loaded over 5,000 rounds of the same load without changeing anything. That is about the max. I can go without cleaning bullet lube from the seating die when useing cast bullets. I do check powder drop if I switch lot`s of powder. I also only use Ball powders as I have never seen a powder measure that would drop charges consistantly enough to suit me.
Standard Devation has already been mentioned and is something that you should keep an eye on if you have a cronograph. That said you should not try to live by it for normal hunting loads or loads for under 400 yrds. I have seen some loads that had excellant SD`s shoot like crap and loads with a SD of 50 or 60 be the most accurate load for a given gun. Once you get to 500 yrds the SD becomes more critical and the farther put you shoot the more critical it gets because of vertical stringing.

[Evan03]

depends on the powder.

i run each load dropped through the powder measure on the sclae when im im useing long stick powders.

4350s 4831s rl19s and such. these dont come to dropn even remotly close through the measure. each of these is fine tuned with the trickler on the sclae.

but h414 h380 maybe imr4831sc(shortcut) and the new ss (super short) powders through almost dead on right through the powder measure. i only check around every ten rds to make sure im still holding within 1 grain.

but i usualky hold to a few tenths.