The Latest on Gunrunner the DOJ & ATF

[jplonghunter]

Do I hear the words " Plausible Deniability " entering this conversation?

[Rapier]

Now we have three written documents that tie Holder to F&F back to July 2010. We also have a boot lick trying to cover Holder by saying he did not read his messages. Yeah, right.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011...-than-claimed/

This had to come because of Holder's speech given in Mexico about Gunrunner prior to its name being changed to F & F. Somewhere there is written proof he knew about this in 2009, not 2010. Issa now has written backup to a lie by Holder, it is on the fire, all he needs to do is start roasting the participants. Remember, while this is frustratingly drawn out, Issa must have proof to nail the head LEO of the land.

If you look at the page above, look over to the right at the article by D***8217;Souza and his new book on O'BS. It directly speaks to the heart of the matter regards the objective and intent of O'BS. He is, according to D***8217;Souza, following his father's teachings, to destroy this country's system of government and its economy from within the government itself. Thus, there is no mistake about his economic policy, it is a direct frontal assault, not a mistake at all. This is a follower of Carl Marx, make no mistake about it, all he needs is Mao***8217;s little red book by his bedside. 60 years ago he would have made a dandy Fidel Castro.

Plausible deniability, undoubtedly, but only to a point, like right now, after people get dead. However, the deal is that these folks were brazen to start with and they were right out in the open. As long as we think about this as decent people err now and again, we will never see this for what it is. That is where the honest ATF agents made a big mistake and were naive, they thought this was an error also.

Here is the clincher and just think about this, it is so simple, go back to the beginning:

We can not turn over the papers requested because we are investigating this matter.

Paraphrased but basically what the DOJ said to Issa. Now fast forward to today and you have that lie all laid out as a cover-up.

[Rapier]

Reuters
EXCLUSIVE: House Republicans are going to call for a special counsel to determine whether Attorney General Eric Holder perjured himself during his testimony to the House Judiciary Committee on Operation Fast and Furious, Fox News has learned.


11:45 AM CT 10-4-11 -- All right Mr Issa!!!

[Rapier]

Well if you have been following the F&F debacle you know that O'BS has confidence in Holder and blew off the Special Council. Then Issa hit Holder with a new Subpena which included about a dozen folks from the DOJ and the White House. First, the five memos showed up but after the Subpena some new memos have been produced and we are again waiting for memos and messages. Issa is after the connection between DOJ and the WH.

The Iranian plot just got thrown into the mix, because they had to release the info due to court appearances. What no one has said was there would be no court appearances if the 7 month investigation did not have arrests right at this moment. No doubt the uneducated are impressed.

Then Holder and the gang tried to blame Bush one more time saying he had a program just like F&F. This was an outright, and outrageous lie. The Bush program included electronic trace equipment in the guns and the inclusion of and the full cooperation of Mexican Authorities. Plus the minute some of the trace equipment malfunctioned, the Bush program was stopped immediately. Oh, plus a minor difference, no one got dead.

Now it appears that O'BS and the "normal suspects" are up to his/their neck in corruption and scandals involving billions of US dollars. Pelosi's version of "draining the swamp" is to have her brother in-law ears deep in the hog trough, while she has a special low minimum wage rate for Samoa where her fish processing plant is located.

Basically you have a Chicago style politico circle jerk going on in DC.

We can only hope that some focus stays on F&F. Seeing Cain go ahead is a refreshing view. If he gets the call, I hope he has a 5,000 gal tanker full of Clorox to pour over the mess, we the people are in need of a good sanitizing in DC.
Ed

[Rapier]

I know, let's blame it on Bush.

Once again the O'BS clowns in waiting are trying to blame Bush for a crumpled fender in the ongoing wreck of F&F. Now saying that Bush did the deed first and the Bush program was Wide Receiver.

Of course the O'BS minions conveniently forget to mention that the guns had tracking devices, the Mexican Government was fully informed and in cooperation and that when a group of guns got through and were lost, the program was immediately halted. But other than those minor items it was the same......

The new documents gotten by subpena clearly show the Mexican Government was working with the US in the Wide Receiver program. Unlike the O'BS F&F deal where everyone denied the guns existence to the Mexican Government and even to the ATF agents in Mexico City.

We are starting to see, cracks in the plaster, political hacks are starting to acknowledge that F&F is a serious albatross around the neck of O'BS and his reelection campaign.
Ed

[Rapier]

How about an understatement: Holder ain't a Harry Truman!

Yesterday Holder testified before the Senate Committee: He blamed lax gun laws on F&F, he blamed Bush, he blamed the Republicans for blocking stronger gun control, he said no one gave him those damming memos, and then said he can not be blamed for F&F because he can't keep up with every operation, and on and on. He did admit that the letter from him stating that there were no gun walking programs was "inaccurate." Here is another quote:

"I certainly regret what happened to Agent Brian Terry," Holder said. "It is not fair, however, to assume that the mistakes that happened in Fast and Furious directly led to the death of Agent Terry."

Holder also said that he had not apologized to the Terry family and under further questioning admitted he had not even contacted the family at all.

A real boss in a situation where there may be a problem with an underling, contacts the aggrieved party, expresses condolences, and indicates he will look into the situation and get to the bottom of the problem right away, but not Holder. As a business owner what I see here is a person so busy covering up, he can not do the right thing by anyone.

Frankly in my opinion Eric Holder is a Skunk of the first order. Every time I see him open his mouth I want to go puke.
Ed

[skeet]

Man Ed..why don't ya tell us how you really feel!! I must agree the guy is worse than a skunk..and he will not ever accept responsibility for anything..Probably not even for breathing..That had to be bush's fault too

[Rapier]

That is the situation in a nut shell. If a man will stand up and admit he was wrong and go on, it is one thing. However, to deny responsibility when you are in charge, is just beyond being acceptable. Every Federal LEO works for the DOJ in one way or the other, for the boss to find out one of his guys has been killed as the result of a botched program executed by another of his units and not even contact the dead man's family is ____, well you stick in a word here.

I was trained to practice and practice to this day that a real leader takes care of his guys first, always. Holder is just a so perfect example of all that is wrong with DC.
Ed

[skeet]

Well it is hard to accept responsibility for bad things or bad decisions. I've had to accept responsibility for things that happened..even when it wasn't my fault... But I was in charge. The people that screwed up were under my charge. I WAS responsible ultimately..luckily noone got killed..but a couple of my guys got hurt....and I didn't ever want that to happen. Sometimes bad stuff happens..it truly is an accident. But thios stuff they did is not and was not an accident. Have you seen that they are trying to drag Bush into this big time..saying well Bush did it..why couldn't we?? Completely ignoring that the bad things that happened on Bush's watch was the fault of the Mexican gummit not doing their jobs!!

[Rapier]

Yes, I have seen the attempted diversion by the Obama administration to a totally different situation. I have also seen some of the Main Media reporters following that lead like lap dogs. It is fluff for the ignorant and ill-informed. All one need do is read some of the Wide Receiver reports and they are full of direct references to the Mexican's involvement with the Bush program. Then you look at the reports on F&F and you see a demand by the Mexican Govt to know what is going on and wanting some hide for their people being killed by our guns, plus the gun owners being blamed by every politico from Hillary to O'BS to Holder.
Ed

[Rapier]

"That shows what kind of a person he is. To me, he is not much of a person. I don't know if he has a son. But if he lost his, he would think different."
Mr. Kent Terry

"I sat in a chair and cried. It was so inhumane. An apology to anybody means at least they are trying to fix it. He didn't."
Mrs. Josephine Terry

The parents of Brian Terry after watching Eric Holder testify.

[Rapier]

Just a couple of items to add to this very long thread:

To add insult to injury the DOJ has sealed the records of the Terry murder. Apparently the DOJ is attempting to stop the Terry family from getting access to new documents they would need to persue a law suit. This type of arrogance on the part of DOJ makes me ill, the idea that our government thinks it can participate in killing your child and deny your family due process, is astounding.

The DOJ has issued a letter to Congress admitting that their denials of F & F and allowing guns to walk was "inaccurate" after ten months of investigation over the original denials. In DC talk that means we lied.

DOJ has now released over 1,000 documents outlining how they lied to Congress about F & F.

The Democrats in the Senate keep trying to protect the DOJ and the Administration. This protection is obviously why prosecution of the guilty in this deal is not going forward and the DOJ has the audacity to punish the whistle blowers right before the eyes of Congress while promoting the guilty. The message by Holder is clear; I am untouchable and you in the DOJ play ball or get sent to Siberia.

It is going to take replacing the Democratis in the Senate to get justice for the injured and murdered in this episode. We here in FL have a new candidate to run against Bill Nelson, O'BS's drum beater in FL, that person is Connie Mack, from a very old FL and TX family and a currently serving US House member. Perhaps we can get rid of Nelson who has been a supporter of every liberal off the wall agenda that came down the pike.
Ed

[Rapier]

Rotten to the core. Ever heard that saying before?

On Monday the DOJ released 2,000 new documents which clearly show that the Deputy administrators in the DOJ, in DC, lied over and over again about Fast and Furious. That there were hundreds of emails flying back and forth within the DOJ, ATF and FBI about what to do with the letter of inquiry by Grassley and Issa in the first 60 days of this year. So what did our leaders decide to do? They decided to lie. They agreed in memos to say there was no gun walking and then when asked under oath about gun walking, they all said they had not read the memos that were initially turned over or could not recall any one of the memos.

Now Issa has documented proof that Holder's chief deputy, his right hand in DC, forwarded the memos he claimed to have never read, to his (the deputy) personal email account on his personal blackberry and further, the deputy, in writing, congratulated the author of the big lie letter written to Congress on his wording of denying gun walking. They have the documented initial discussions, the agreement on the direction to take, the letter itself, the congratulations on the letter, etc. In other words they have the DOJ Chief Deputy by the nads for perjury and lying to Congress.

They do not have a direct link to Holder yet. But, it is impossible at this point to believe that hundreds of emails flew back and forth in his department about an inquiry from Congress and he knew nothing about any of it.

Holder is to appear tomorrow and answer for the lies of the DOJ to Congress. Seems like we are seeing the little bubbles beginning to form on the bottom of the pot and it is starting to boil.
Ed

[buckhunter]

This is what was publised in the Boston Herald today.

Not much more than we already knew. Holder is running away from this.


WASHINGTON — The chairman of the House Judiciary Committee accuses the Justice Department of giving inconsistent statements about what he calls a reckless and dangerous law enforcement program.
Rep. Lamar Smith of Texas says many questions remain about who authorized the arms-tracking investigation known as Operation Fast and Furious. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives is being criticized for failing to track illicitly obtained weapons that were later recovered in Mexico and the U.S., many of them at crime scenes.
Attorney General Eric Holder, the sole witness at Thursday’s hearing, says it was inexcusable for the bureau to use a controversial tactic known as "gun-walking" in its effort to identify and prosecute major arms trafficking networks along the Southwest border.
© Copyright 2011 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

[Rapier]

"The new internal messages reveal that in early January this year, a month before there was any publicity about "Fast & Furious," Department of Justice personnel were pointing out: "this case ["Fast & Furious] could be a strong supporting factor [for new regulations] if we can determine how many multiple sales of long guns occurred during the course of this case." "

From email messages sent to Issa by the DOJ on Friday last. Now we get the first direct evidence that the DOJ was actually using F&F to instigate more gun regulation laws and had a direct and deliberate political agenda.

In the Holder testimony yesterday we also heard for the first time, on record, the word Impeachment.
Ed