Magnums Not Needed (Elk & Deer)

[okiebowhunter]

I had to get in on this one. I don't consider myself a magnum freak but my favorite rifles are weatherby mags. I need them. That's what I tell my wife. There fast, flat shooting and fun to do load development (rifles look nice to).

With that said I also have another fav., my custom 6.5. Shoots like a dream its light and was made just how I wanted it.

The point is all the rifles and gadgets I have are fun, cool, or a must have. That's what keeps this sport interesting. It sure does get expensive though.

Its too late to change me. I love this gun craze too much.

Okiebowhunter

[TreeDoc]

obh.....you and I would get along just great!!!

[Andy L]

OBH and TD,
Here Here!!!

Andy

[scalerman]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. There is only one criteria by which to judge hunting rifles and gear, that is, does it get the job done. If your .222 and striped coveralls and a t-shirt puts meat on the table then praise the LORD. If you need a 30-378 Weatherby and scent lock camo to do the same job praise the LORD. Hunting is more about spending time out doors than killing something. If you get stressed about what you are wearing or shooting then, in my mind anyway, the enjoyment has been stripped from you. Go out shoot what ever caliber of rifle that you feel comfortable with (and is legal), wear whatever is comfortable (and legal), and do it in a legal and ethical manner. The last thing we need in the hunting fraternity right now is more little groups saying that they are right and everybody else is wrong. That is exactly what the anti-hunters want. A military leader looks to divide and conquer his enemy. It is much easier to defeat a smaller group than a large one. Sermon over.

[M.T. Pockets]

I agree that magnums aren't necessary for deer or elk, but I've only got one centerfire rifle and it's chambered in .300 Win Mag. I've used it from fox to deer, caribou, elk and had a round in the chamber when I stumbled upon a grizz eating a gutpile. It felt like a BB gun.

Anyway, I agree that magnums aren't necessary. I'd gladly hunt deer with a .243 and elk with a .270, there are also some great larger non-magnum calibers which are great elk rounds like the .338-06 or .35 Whelen. I do prefer a 200 grain bullet, these animals deserve a bit of respect. With that said I feel like my .300 Win Mag is turning into a classic round, heck it's been around 40 years or so and is always the round other magnums compare themselves to. If others want to shoot the newest & greatest more power (and powder) to them, just don't make me have to change. I still run windows 95 on my computer so you all know how cutting edge I am.

But while magnums may not be necessary, they're sure nice. Kind of like a 4 wheel drive pickup, how often do you really need it ? But it's sure nice to have available when you do. I practice a lot all year long and am very comfortable shooting from field positions to 300 yards and with a rest to 400. If conditions were right I would (and have) shoot an elk at 400 yards. I wouldn't be comfortable to do this with some of the smaller rifles. I know everybody knows a guy who knocked a bull dead with one shot from his .270 at 700 yards with 130 grain bullets, but it wouldn't be me.

Gadgets ? Well, I hunt in the same clothes I feed cattle in except I throw on a blaze orange vest when required. I'm not much into camo or gizmos but I do love my GPS (I did't get the camo one, it was $20 extra). I don't understand camo underwear or toilet paper. I put a blaze orange strip on my knife handle and thought about inventing blaze orange toilet paper.

While we're talking about magnums being necessary, how about the duck sloughs full of guys shooting 3 1/2" bismuth at teal & wood ducks all day long ? This is where I see magnums used when I don't need to be. For me, I just want to get the job done responsibly and quickly.

[Rocky Raab]

I think there's a need for a distinction here.

What razmuz originally said was that a lot of things like magnum rifles and camo aren't NEEDED to hunt deer. He's right.

What some of the rest of you said was that you WANTED to use those same things. You're right, too.

There's no disagreement, just a difference of emphasis.

Most of you know that I don't like magnums. For my own style of hunting, I CHOOSE to limit my shots to under 300 yards and use moderate dartridges. I can hold on hair and drop anything I choose to shoot at.

Last week, some of the Mods got together in Pennsylvania to whack some ground hogs and meet each other (for the first time!). Petey and some others shot super-hyper calibers, and managed to hit hogs at nearly 700 yards. Honest.

The rifle I brought was a 22 Hornet.

We hunted and they shot at hogs for hours. Guess who managed to make the first confrimed kill? Ol' Rock - offhand at 114 yards. (Then I missed two in a row!)

I think I had more fun, but I bet they'd say the opposite.

I didn't NEED a 6.5-284 ray gun to kill a hog. They CHOSE to use guns like that. ALL OF US had a great time and killed hogs.

(FWIW, does anyone else think it's hilarious for a guy to use a magnum rifle so he can shoot deer at XXX yards - and then don scent-lok duds?)

[gd357]

A lot of good points have been made here. I guess I'll add my 2 cents to the growing pile of change. I've used 2 rifle calibers exclusively for my deer hunting (here in ohio, we don't have the luxury of using them, so I have to go out of state if I want to do so). Primarily all of my "rifle" deer have been shot with a 30-06, the rest with a 7mm Rem Mag. I know I don't need all that power, but I'd rather have too much than not enough. I've also seen enough deer hit poorly by inexperienced hunters using marginal calibers, that I'm glad the first deer rifle I used was an '06. I've always been a proponent of using enough gun for whatever game you pursue, so I'll probably never use anything smaller than a 25 caliber on deer (no offense to those of you who do, I just don't feel the need to try). Bigger calibers = larger wound channels and more tissue destruction. I believe you should use the largest bore diameter you can shoot comfortably and accurately.

BTW, Rocky, it is hilarious to see a long range gun with scent blocker clothing

gd357

[GoodOlBoy]

No buddy I don't see a thing wrong with folks using what they like to so long as they do so saftely. Hunting whitetail in a cow pasture with a 300 RUM is not my idea of safety btw since that bullet is going to keep moving after it his said whitetail. My point as that folks seem to focus on bigger fast better calibers, and not can they hit the broadside of a barn with what they already have. An interesting fact. In the state of Texas it is illegal to hunt deer with a rimfire round. Acorrding to the Texas Wildlife department more deer are taken with a 22lr each year than any other caliber (A rimfire round). When we talk about what you should and shouldn't use keep in mind that many hunters substitute a bigger caliber for a lack in accuracy on their part. Men in the 1800s took deer, elk, and even bear with pistols and rifles. When you consider what skill it takes to kill an animal with an original 45 colt round (255 grain RN lead bullet in front of 40 grains of black powder in a ballon head case moving approx 675-690 fps front an article I read) then it is staggerin that some folks say it cannot be done unless you have (for example) a 180 grain 30 caliber boat tail ballistic tip (or HP if you prefer) bullet moving in excess of 3000fps. . . . . . .

On the flip side. If you want to shoot mule deer and elk at six hundred yards a 45 colt, or 30-30 ain't gonna get you there unless you are not only skilled but DANGED lucky. (I won't say it cannot be done because I have seen Bob Munden shoot ballons at 100 yards with a daisy BB gun.) But then again a 45-120 with a 45 caliber bullet moving only around 1000 fps or slower WILL do it. So again why do you need a 300 RUM? Personally because I want one IS a valid answer because each to his or her own. Because thats all that will get the job done is not a valid answer. Thats what I was talking about.

GoodOlBoy

[Nulle]

Guess I like my 7mm mag for the reason of the wide range of reloading that can be done with it and very seldom do I shoot factory.
My 257 roberts is the same way and a fun gun to shoot but guess I would not try it on anything bigger then deer.
That is what I like and feel comfortable with and thats the way it is in this camp. lol

[sierra22]

Well, I certainly believe in the power of good marketing, and the US gunpress is undoubtedly the most influental.
Just look at European firearms manufacturers and see which calibers they supply.

Fast cartridges, big optics and long laser ranged distances seems to be very hot topics today. When did you last read anything about stalking?

This year I've made several long range shot on trouble deer (fraying damage) because of the foresters requests. Normally I feel elated and melancholy after a successful stalk, but this time it was satisfactory but too much of the melancholy. It was just a routine job.

"All to their own" as many have said, I just hope it doesn't develop into something where the novice feels he has no place unless he mounts his duper variable on his super magnum that needs a clearance from his laser rangefinder to fire.

I hope that no development in the market will ever cheat a hunter of that elation a stalk gives me, and I hope that the hunter that wants to use all this new equipment or shoot long range will thourougly enjoy his experience!

[GoodOlBoy]

There you go Sierra22, thats probably more then a bit of my "prejudice". I feel like (personal thing here) I am cheating when I plug a critter at beyond 100 yards. Heck to be honest one of my goals is to take my 45LC carbine up to my brother in laws in montana one year and plug an elk with it at CLOSE range (If you can kill the freakin' thing with a recurve bow I can kill it with my 45.) Besides it takes all the fun out of it. I guess I have seen to many hunting shoes with some guy whispering 400 yards downrange just before his buddy snaps the spine on a antelope with a 7mm wsm and they stand there talking about what a great shot it is while the critter drags its back half crying and trying to get away (Saw this on a video in a wal-mart recently that was playing on one of their tvs in sporting goods. No wonder the Antis hate us.)

GoodOlBoy

[Andy L]

You know, this sounds wild, but its the truth. My 300 Win Mag with a factory 150gr Core Lokt, gives clean quick kills on whitetails, many times over in the last 20 years that I have had it. And, with a good boiler room hit, does less damage than deer hit the same with my 243, 25-06 and even 22-250.

GOB, you are correct, and I dont go slingin a 300 piece of lead accross open pastures, when I dont know whats back there. But, I do like to shoot it and it does sweep em off their feet, in almost all cases. And, in a situation I had a few years back, it got me a GOOD buck, I may or may not have gotten with any other gun I own. Not lack of marksmanship, but it was a shot that I wouldnt have tried at that angle with anything else, knowing it was going to knock him down for good, where it may or may not have with a 243. Now, before I get attacked for being a slob hunter, I was sure of the shot and had a rest with plenty of time, he was dead before I pulled the trigger. After the recoil and I got the scope back on him, all I could see was horns sticking up. But, I wouldnt have even thought of doing it with a smaller round. His horns are on my den wall and the sausage was good too.

I will have to say, that was the only time on a whitetail, that I think I NEEDED that gun. But, theres lots of times that I LIKE having that gun.

Andy

[Dom]

It's really to each his own on a subject like this. And really, variety is the spice of life. If everybody used an '06 we'd be dull hunters (albeit 99% happy!).

I'm in the middle based on my hunting style -- and use an '06 w/180 gr bullets. I don't recommend the 22 holes nor the magnums for most big game animals.

Could go the other way and say: "Man, you should give the game a chance and use the new .15 PemOff rimfire".

I could be swayed to use a magnum if I needed the extra yardage though. I'd rather have too much gun than not enough -- you owe it to your game to take them cleanly. As long as the hunter is satisfied, including unnecessary meat damage from magnums or bad shots, that's all that really matters, Waidmannsheil, Dom.

[GoodOlBoy]

Well I have to agree with that Dom. I have gone far enough off the deep end in the other direction that my current goal is to be able to take Elk, and a large variety of game with my 45LC carbine. Not only to prove that it can be done cleanly, but because I want to. If you can take it with a recurve bow, I would bet can take it with my 45LC.

GoodOlBoy

[Andy L]

GOB,
Ever notice we, many on this board, seem to take the long way around to come to the conclusion that we agree on things.

Guess thats whats forums are for, huh?

Have a Good Day Buddy
Andy