30/06 165s

[Rocky Raab]

And to all the people who have killed thousands of deer with Game Kings that did NOT blow up, you would say what?

You shot the deer again and the second bullet worked fine. Was it a Game King?

[Larryjk]

Rocky, I have used Sierra 250 gr SBT in the .338 and taken elk with them without a problem. I was told those bullets come apart in an elk, but I told them it always killed them when it came apart.

[dakotah]

I actually had to shoot it three times all good hits.

I was hunting with 5 other people. We hung the deer up and did an investigation. The bullet did not even damage a rib.

I suspect that for a gut shooter and bones don't enter into the equation.

[dakotah]

If a hunter uses a bullet that is heavy for the caliber or shoots the bullet slow enough, bullets that are fragile at higher velocities will work fine at lower velocities.

Of all the hunters (except the one below) I have talked to, to a person, they do not use sierra bullets on big game. Some of tried it and will never again. Others just have seen what other hunters results were and they will never use Sierras.

I did see one hunter that always shot deer and antelope in the head. He liked fragile bullets. He is the only hunter I know personnally that actually likes fragile bullets on big game.

[Larryjk]

Rocky, Apparently you and I are the only two gut shooters here since we use Sierras occasionally. Had any good gut shots lately?

[Rocky Raab]

Well, I've heard people say that Nosler bullets are crap, and I've heard people say they won't use Speers. I've heard some swear that Hornady bullets are junk, too.

So if I believed all of them, and also believed guys who rant about Sierras,I'd have nothing left to shoot except Barnes bullets. Oh,wait...I also hear Barnes bullets foul bores, are inaccurate and don't expand.

[PJgunner]

When I look back over roughly 54 years of deer hunting with a few elk hunts thrown in, I have to admit that I've probably used more Sierra bullets than anything else. For more years that I'l like to count, I used the Sierra 150 gr. Pro-hunters, although they did not call them that way back then. I came to the conclusion after cleaning up many a mangled deer and bloodshot meat that maybe that bullet was a tad too fragile and upon a friend's suggesttion went to the 180 gr. Sierra Pro-hunter, although again, they were not called that way back then. They were still in caifornia at the time and Sierra bulelts were about tow bucks cheaper than Hornady'zs or Speer's, probably due to shipping costs. I lived (existed?) in San Francisco way back then and the Sierras were just plain easier to get with the other two brands having to be special ordered.
The 180 gr. Sierra has worked for me for years and is the bullet of choice for deer in my 30-06. For elk, I have a 180 gr. load using the Nosler Partition that shoots to the same point of impact as my deer load.
On my last hunt for elk, I took a .300 Win. mag. that pushed a 200 gr. Speer Hot-core to 2930 FPS from my rifle's 26" barrel.
I shot a cow elk at a lasered 530 yards and that 200 gr. bullet couldn't have been doing much more than 30-30 speed way out younder but the cow dropped and never moved an inch.
Being as I'm now 70 years old, I doubt if I'll ever get to do a moose hunt, darn it! If I were to though, I believe I'd just take my .35 Whelen with some stiff loaded 250 gr. Speer Hot-cores and go a huntin'.
Paul B.

[Rev]

Originally posted by dakotah
The game king is a fine bullet?? For coyotes perhaps. I shot a white tail doe in the shoulder using a Game King 165 grain bullet from a 30-06 (not a magnum) and the bullet did not penetrate the shoulder. It blew up. I had to reshoot the wounded doe. If you want to recommend that type of performance -- well I don't know what to say.

They never did that for me. I shot numerous Texas Hill Country whitetails with that bullet in .30-06 at 2700 f/s MV at 100-200 yds.. I always had complete penetration with a gaping exit wound. Granted, these are 100-150 lb. deer.

Rev

[dakotah]

Rev

You were shooting 150-200 yards. I was about 10 yards. My loads was probably 2750 - 2800 fps. I am not sure what velocity your load would be at 150-200 yards but like Rocky said. The bullet is more likely to blow up at higher velocities.

I am not totally against Sierras, it is just that I like other bullets much better. IMO, if you shoot the Sierras at lower velocities and/or you have a heavy bullet for the game they should work. For me I don't have to use them and I think there are better bullets for big game out there.

Although I spend a lot of time on the prairie hunting, the range for shooting deer, antelope, elk varies greatly for me. I would hate to say the longest range -- but I shot a fine antelope at 20 yards the last time out. I suspect that there was a lot of luck being able to intercept his movement by following creek bottoms etc. But when he appeared he was sling shot range.

I was using a 280 on that hunt. Antelope have very strong leg bones. If I had placed the bullet through the front leg with that 280 it would have had to be a tough bullet to keep on going. And when he saw me when he topped the raise he was running and fast. I did not have a 'perfect' shot.

I always hunt deer while I am on the ground (never in a blind) - same with antelope and elk. In these instances I can not wait for the deer or whatever to stand broadside for me. I need to take the shot when it presents itself. Sometimes that is when a game animal is just going over a ridge. Sometimes it is when they are almost spitting range. I can't afford to use anything but top notch bullets.

[Rocky Raab]

Uhhh, it sure SOUNDED like you were an anti-Sierra guy.

I'll agree that at 10 or 20 yards, you do need a premium bullet. Or at least a bonded-core one like the Rem Core-Lokt, the Speer Grand Slam or Nosler Accubond.

But in that situation, it simply isn't fair to criticize (much less advocating a virtual boycott) of a bullet not designed for that. If I may say so, it's also a bit disingenuous to not mention the extremely short range in your wounded deer tale. That alone not only explains but completely exonerates a failed bullet.

[dakotah]

If you take a 30-30 bullet made by any manufacturer and load it to 30-06 velocities. It becaomes a bullet that is virtually useless for deer, while it may be a perfectly good bullet at 30-30 velocities.

In a hunting condition -- that I have never had and never will -- shooting at a deer strolling by while I am sitting on my duff in a tree stand almost any bullet will do. A .22 rimfire is a deer killer in the right circumstances.

In hunting in the open spaces such as were I normally hunt a bullet that works only in a certain velocity range just is a very poor choice.

Sure, getting a deer out of bed and drilling it before it stretches is fine but to rely on a bullet, while good for that style of shooting, for a hurried shot at close range that is not my choice. I will blast those bullet designs all day long.

So a 35 rem will factory loads is an excellent deer killer when used in a tree stand or were shots never exceed a certain yardage. Try a 35 Remington in the Rockies for Mule Deer. If you do you a re limiting yourself needlessly and perhaps one out of twently otherwise possible shots with a 300 Win Mag is possible with that 35 Rem. Nothing wrong with the 35 Rem in a certain hunting condition.

This whole thread reminds me of a guy who uses 125 grain bullets in his 300 Weatherby and then he felt he needed a faster bullet and went to a 30-378 and used his 125 grain standard (not premium) bullet. He claimed that was the best deer killer ever. He wounded a few but when he killed one it went down like lightning. That thought pattern is along the same lines of what I have seen with the Sierra bullets. That is -- they are more fragile than many - perhaps similar to the early Nosler Ballistic Tips. If a Sierra bullet is loaded right or using a heavier bullet than in other manufacturers or using a heavier caliber than with other manufacturers or if hunting where you know youe shooting is at long enough range were the bullet has slowed down then OK.

Recommending a bullet for deer hunting without stating conditions is as bad as lamb-blasting the bullet for being unreliable without conditions. Hunting deer in Alabama is not the same as hunting deer in Wyoming.

[skeet]

Have used 'em for years. Never had any trouble with them. At all ranges. I once shot a deer 10 times. He just wouldn't go down and stay down. Bad bullets? Nah everyone was in a good kill zone. Most were at very short range. He finally rolled over and played dead. I was kinda young and just knew that ol deer was gonna get away. That was with a shotgun and slugs. All except one were clear through. The only bullet I can say for sure that ever didn't work right was a 46 gr OPE in a 220 Swift. Hit a groundhog at about 50 yds. Killed him. ..almost skinned him and never penetrated past the skin. I guess most any bullet can fail at one time or another... either from outside influences or possibly a bad bullet. Does happen occassionally I guess. We always remember the bad things that happen...hardly ever all the good things in life

[Larryjk]

dakotah, Just what the heck do you use for a hunting bullet and where do you normally plan on hitting the animal you are shooting at? I am not exactly a spring chicken at shooting big game, and I have definite reasons for shooting where I do on their anatomy. I have used damn near every brand of bullet that is available, and when used humainly, any of them can make an adequate kill. I do pick my shots and put the bullet into specific places. I usually eat what I shoot (in normally edible animals) and don't want a bloody mess (my wife cooks it and generally eats it also).
There are always exceptions to every rule. If you have read any of the books on Elmer Keith, and if you had ever met him, you would know why he liked larger calibers and heavier bullets for caliber. A lot of his game was shot "going over the hill", as in what is fondly called a "Texas heart shot". He needed calibers and bullets that would penetrate through the body to the heart and lungs. What I am saying is that if you will be taking that kind of a shot, if necessary, you should have a gun and bullets that make it possible.
Last, if you are a hunter, and not just a shooter, you pick your shot.

[dakotah]

I would say it is just the other way around. People that sit in stands are smore shooters than hunters. They are the ones who pick their shots more easily. I suspect you have never hunted in the mountains or the plains???

[Rocky Raab]

As he is from Rawlins, I suspect he has.

Dakotah, there's a tone in your posts that is a bit grating. It showed in your comments about Sierra bullets and now it shows again in your comment about stand hunting. If it isn't meant, you may wish to think hard about your word choices and phrasing. If it IS meant, then I as Mod of this forum need to watch you more closely.