Detroit vs US Senate

[Larryjk]

Senator Christopher Dodd (Conn) has called for the CEO of General Motors to step down. Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?
He took a "special" rate loan from Freddie that saved him about $75,000 and now thinks the CEO of a mega corporation is incompetent.
Seems the best way to steal money is by being elected as a representative (Barney Franks), or a Senator (Schumer or Dodd).
Then you can steal money by having it donated to you as a campaign contribution.

[RagingBullPa]

i actually laughed out loud even more so for the knowledgeable people who voted for a buffoon like Dodd of course our Senator Casey voted for the loan also Specter is too old to remember what he did 5 minutes ago, including changing his depends , him they should just replace along with our Gov Rendell

[RagingBullPa]

for the workers in away it is their livelyy hood but the unions greed for more , more , more, over the years also didn't help the situation either, right now my work place iis in contract negotiations , it doesn't look good , as a union worker myself i just hope the right negotiations are done and i still have a good job while retaining the benefits i already have, they are a lot more important than the monenetary issues

[Steverino]

I agree with you completely Larry,

The kicker is that their own constituents will undoubtedly vote all of these bozos back into office at the end of their terms- you watch. Then they'll blame the current Bush administration for the financial meltdown (that is if they're not alreadfy doing it).

My wife had some of her liberal family members over at our house for Thanksgiving and after a couple days of biting my lip playing cards and hearing the liberal crap spew forth, I couldn''t take it anymore. My wife bowed her head and made a hurried exit out of our dining room as I began my tirade.

It went something like this: "Lest no one leave my humble abode uninformed, I have sat at this very table with all of you the past couple of evenings listening to misinformation, distortion of the facts and just plain liberal bull***t!

The Democrats have been at the helm of Congress for the past two years. Not that I am particularly pleased with the Republican party at the moment, because I am not, but if I were a card carrying Democrat, I would be furious!

Christopher Dodd and Barney Frank held (hold) powerful senate chairs on banking and finance subcommittes. Where the hell where they during this mortgage lending mess and bail-out of Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac?"

[fabsroman]

Steverino,

I couldn't agree with you more, but I don't have your problem with the in-laws. All of my in-laws are staunch conservatives.

[Larryjk]

Unfortunately, these theives will be voted in again, when their current terms are up. The way they do it is by giving their constiuents everything they want, even if it is screwing the country. That is how Kennedy has stayed in for 40 years. Those guys have strong stomaches because it doesn't bother them to look in the mirror while they shave. Hopefully, there is a day of reckoning when they are eventually judged!

[Steverino]

I was personally never a Chysler fan growing up (did like Mopar though) but always liked and respected Lee Iococca. Thought that this article was interesting as well as timely to this topic.

DETROIT – Lee Iacocca, the man who led Chrysler through a government bailout in the late 1970s, says the CEOs of Detroit's automakers should not be forced to quit as a condition of getting government loans.

Iacocca, Chrysler's retired chairman and chief executive, said in a statement Tuesday that now is not the time to make executive changes, as suggested by Senate Banking Committee Chairman Chris Dodd, D-Conn.

"Having been there, I do not agree with the sentiment now coming out of Congress that the management should be changed as a condition of granting loans to the Detroit automakers," Iacocca said. "You don't change coaches in the middle of a game, especially when things are so volatile."

He added that the auto industry has been hit by an unpredictable series of events beyond its control.

"The companies may not be perfect but the guys who are running them now are the only ones with the experience and the in-depth knowledge and understanding of how the car business really works," he said. "They're by far the best shot we have for success."

Dodd said over the weekend in a television interview that Wagoner "has to move on" as part of a government-run restructuring. President-elect Barack Obama, without naming names, said current auto industry management should be ousted if it doesn't understand the need to make changes. Dodd didn't name Ford Motor Co. CEO Alan Mulally or Chrysler LLC's Bob Nardelli.

Chrysler, General Motors and Ford are seeking up to $34 billion in loans to help them weather the worst auto sales climate in 26 years. Congress may vote this week on a plan to give them temporary relief while being held accountable for restructuring.

Iacocca persuaded Congress to issue $1.5 billion in loan guarantees for Chrysler in 1979.

The bill was passed four days before Christmas and signed into law by President Jimmy Carter in January 1980. Like the bill now under consideration in Congress, the 1979 legislation gave the government broad oversight of the company and an ownership stake. Chrysler avoided bankruptcy and went on to develop its highly successful fuel-efficient K-cars.

Chrysler eventually drew down $1.2 billion in loans and repaid them within three years, seven years early. Chrysler turned a profit in 1982 and the government made $311 million in the sale of stock warrants and another $25 million in loan guarantee fees.

[Larryjk]

I have always raised hell about the cost of cars, the unions that make them, etc. There is one thing I always try to remember about the auto-makers.
When we get involved in a war, these are the folks we turn to to get trucks, tanks, guns, you name it. Maybe we can get cars from Japan, Chine, Korea, Sweden. etc., but I am not sure some of those countries could be counted on to deliver the war materials we might need in a hurry. That sweet old Garand was made by International Harvester!

[RagingBullPa]

yup some were made by international harvester , some by remington ,some by westinghouse, smith and wesson , harrington and richardson , and of course springfield armory , our legion posts rifle drill squad uses m-1 in parades and military funerals and there was a slew of manufacturers that produced them during ww2, great american knowhow, we had i believe 21 m1's in our mini armory we were quite on demand when it came to parades and military funerals, love those weapons

[Ol` Joe]

Originally posted by Larryjk
I have always raised hell about the cost of cars, the unions that make them, etc. There is one thing I always try to remember about the auto-makers.
When we get involved in a war, these are the folks we turn to to get trucks, tanks, guns, you name it. Maybe we can get cars from Japan, Chine, Korea, Sweden. etc., but I am not sure some of those countries could be counted on to deliver the war materials we might need in a hurry. That sweet old Garand was made by International Harvester!

My mother in law assembled 50 cal machineguns at AC (Delphi now) and an uncle built planes in what was I think a Buick factory dureing WW2. Inland Guild (fisher body) built M1 carbines. Chrysler built tanks until 15 or so years ago.
The auto sector is THE manufacturing center of the country. There is no bank or service sector around that can tool up and build war machines if needed.

[Steverino]

"There is no bank or service sector around that can tool up and build war machines if needed."

Don't worry OJ, as long as the US doesn't go to war with China, we'll be okay as they can churn out whatever we need!

[skeeter@ccia.com]

The steel needed to make these items in an auto plant if were needed like past years use to come from places like Pittsburgh...the 'steel city'....well now here we go again in the destruction of America from within. Not only did they close down the major steel mills here around this area, but to make sure they never fire them up again if need to make tanks, guns or what ever, they tore them to the ground...naked dirt there now..I drive past these miles and miles of fenced in dirt..so, if we need to turn over the auto plants again, where we going to make the steel needed?...our ship is already sunk.
I am a retired union worker also and believe me they needed someone to help with the working conditions back when...that is what they were all about in the beginning..all the way up to now..unions are great for keeping the jobs for people that loose them for say ...drugs..booze..just not showing up for work..you know the ones that don't want to work...but in this day and age, can we expect to take a pay cut when the top dogs are getting all these extra dollars?...I use to remind my boss now and then that he would not have a shop if it were not for his employees..but when times were lean, we employees helped out all we could to save our jobs...even a buck an hr would help these auto boys keep things rolling..

[Larryjk]

The Pres of the UAW was on the news tonight and was asked if it was necessary to have 42 days of vacation along with 17 paid holidays since the pay was between $42 and $71/hr? He said they were always being asked to sacrafice. Looking at those figures, I think there is serious room for sacrafice. Some sacrafice might beat the hell out of no pay at all.

[Jack]

'Those figures' being an interesting point.....
I've seen that 71$ an hour figure thrown around- and I wonder what all is included. Pay and benefits, obviously- but I suspect included also is pension costs for the retired workers.
And that's the big difference between the newer foreign plants in the US and the big 3. The big 3 (Ford, GM, Chrysler) have been around for a long time- long enough to have many retired workers on pensions. The newer foreign plants have NOT been around long enough to have significant retirement costs- assuming they pay pensions.
I got a feeling that if you tried to actually find an auto worker being paid 71$ an hour in pay and benefits you'd have a great deal of trouble finding one.

[fabsroman]

Isn't retirement a benefit?

I have read in several places that Ford's health care costs in 2005 were $6 billion. That is a good chunk of change. They also made the mistake of using defined benefit plans instead of defined contribution plans, but the defined benefit plan was all the rage 20 to 30 years ago, until investments didn't return as much as they had hoped and they came up with huge shortfalls that they needed to fund. I think this almost broke Remington. Now, almost every employer uses defined contribution plans like 401(k)'s, and hopefully the Big 3 are doing the same.

Ultimately, I think both management and the UAW need to cut out a lot of stuff to get the Big 3 back on track. They should approach this as I am cutting X, what are you willing to cut, and continue on until there is nothing left to cut.