"Locked and Cocked" is not ok with Mike!

Adam Helmer · #1 12-21-2008, 04:43 PM

My neighbor inheirited a mint Ithaca M1911A1 .45 Auto that is one of the 80,000 made in WWII. Mike has a CCW permit and wanted to carry his grandad's .45. Bless him.

We went to the backyard bench and ran some Ball and 200 grain SWC cast handloads through his .45. Afterwards, I showed him how to field strip and properly clean his prize pistol. We discussed holsters and carry methods. Mike has a perceived need to be armed in some places he goes. I discussed "Locked and Cocked" and sweeping off the safety during the draw and he got concerned. I told him John Browning made the 1911/1911A1 pistol SAFE for the knowledgeable user.

Mike prefers to carry his .45 Chamber Empty and will RACK the slide to get serious if need be. I pointed out that racking the slide will direct ALL the Bad Guys' attention to HIM when he makes that manuever. He just cannot carry a M1911A1 Locked and Cocked. I told him I could, but he needs to consider a revolver. I may get to trade a S&W M10 2-inch for a mint Ithaca.

Adam

Steverino · #2 12-22-2008, 02:03 PM

I have also met shooters through the years Adam that were uncomfortable carrying locked & cocked and then have had occassion to wonder why they bother carrying. Don't get me wrong, something is better than nothing. I personally have never (and hope that I am never) in a situation where the use of immediate deadly force is necessary, however, from many accounts from people far more knowledgable than I in such matters, they preach that when things typically go bad, they do so very quickly.

I also think that you are spot on with your recommendations of a revolver for someone with locked/cocked issues. I personally love my Springy .45 but am much more accurate with my revolvers. My wheels are my "go-to" guns in a pinch because of this!

Jack · #3 12-22-2008, 05:54 PM

Let's see... revolver, loaded: no safety.
1911 loaded, cocked and locked: 2 safeties.

To each his own, I guess.

BILLY D. · #4 12-22-2008, 06:46 PM

I slept with one under what ever was being used as a pillow in 'nam.

I also didn't pull a Plexiglass with it either. Mine was always kept as clean as possible under the conditions and always carried cocked and locked.

Does your friend also wait to put in a magazine and carry it separately?

He ain't long for this world carrying that way.

Best wishes, Bill

Mr. 16 gauge · #5 12-22-2008, 06:52 PM

For those unfamiliar with "cocked and locked" carry, it can be a bit intimidating....at first. I know it was for me. It just takes some practice & getting used to. I have a friend who carries and he is afraid of carrying a firearm cocked and locked. I asked him "and how many accidental discharges have you heard of with a 1911 carried cocked and locked as opposed to other firearms?" Of course, the answer is 'none'. "Do you carry your deer rifle with the chamber empty, and rack it when you see a buck, or do you carry it with a round in the chamber and the safety on?" Of course, the answer is "round in chamber, safety on". "Then what is the difference between carrying the 1911 with a round chambered and the safety on, and a deer rifle with a round in the chamber and the safety on?"

Silence..............................

Adam Helmer · #6 12-22-2008, 07:05 PM

Thanks for the great responses guys.

Steverino and Jack,

I agree that a revolver is much easier for new handgunners to use effectively. Anyone who ever "shot" a water pistol or cap gun as a kid can use a DA revolver. It has to do with "transverance" of motor skills, or some such.

Billy D.,

You crack me up-LOL.

Mr. 16 gauge,

I think I have settled Mike's "locked and cocked" issues by showing him a Bucheimer thumb-break .45 auto holster that positions the thumb break strap over the rear of the frame and blocks a cocked hammer fall when the strap is snapped. It IS NOT a safety by any means, but it does reassure folks with locked and cocked issues-kinda like a pacifier, don't you know?

Merry Christmas, guys.

Adam

gold40 · #7 12-24-2008, 09:00 PM

If Mike's gun is truly a mint WWII Ithaca M1911-A1 he probably should NOT be carrying it - it is too valuable. It may be worth $2k+. I'd suggest he not fire it again.

If that is his only handgun, perhaps he should buy something much less valuable to carry -- and keep the Ithaca as a family heirloom.

JERRY

Adam Helmer · #8 12-27-2008, 02:37 PM

gold40,

I agree, a mint Ithaca should be carefully cleaned and put into the vault with other valuables. I am lobbying hard to have him get a double action revolver for CCW.

Adam

Nulle · #9 12-27-2008, 02:53 PM

My Glock is always ready or I would just leave it at home.

8X56MS · #10 01-24-2009, 02:06 PM

hope that delay in a time of crisis won't cost Mike his life..........

Swift · #11 01-24-2009, 03:42 PM

I wasn't aware that there was any other way to carry one other than "locked, cocked , ready to rock"

Adam Helmer · #12 01-24-2009, 06:47 PM

Swift,

Apparently you were never an MP, or AP, in the U.S. Military. I was and our mandated mode of carry was a 5-round magazine inserted and the chamber EMPTY on the M1911A1. I did not agree with that mode of carry, but that was the SOP.

Many civillians opt for the Chanber-Empty, Mag inserted mode of carry. When the NEED arises, it takes a very LOUD function to cycle the .45 and get "One Up The Spout", Meanwhile, every Bad Guy zeroes in on the racking sound and unloads!

The M1911/1911A1 is for the savvy folk who know what they are about. The rest of the folks needs to find a DA revolver because all semi-auto pistols function best with a round chambered in Gravest Extreme.

Adam

Swift · #13 01-25-2009, 01:25 AM

Yer right I was never an MP or AP but did 6 yrs service and whenever there was a security alert ( not known to us, which the gunners usually informed us of ) I went locked and cocked.

Also stuffed the Mossberg full of 00 buck standard SOP or not I was not gonna be a casket if I had any say in the matter.

Just never told my Gunny..

Adam Helmer · #14 01-25-2009, 06:47 PM

Swift,

We are both of a like mind, LOL! Been there and done that, alright. I had my chamber-loaded .45 many times when I decided it was the BEST course of action for my survival. I cleared the chamber BEFORE the end of guard post and nobody knew the better, eh, wot?

Adam

Rapier · #15 03-15-2009, 07:55 PM

Adam,
I was an armoror in the 101st, I was also a coach and member of the pistol and rifle teams. I instructed folks who were issued 45s as TO&E on its use, after the official briefing was done. I also fixed the clattery guns so they would shoot. None of my guys ever went into combat with an empty chamber. The 1911 was designed and adopted to replace the revolver and the very basis of the design is cocked and locked with one up the snout. There is nothing unsafe about a locked and cocked 1911.
Best,
Ed