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#31
09-20-2009, 06:58 PM
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Adam,
I think the solution is for your buddy to get another type of weapon, be it a revolver or semi auto of a different type. I have been carrying for some years, and investigated the 1911 platform, owned a few. It was not for me. I carry a Glock 19, no more or less safe than a 1911. Any gun is unsafe if the correct level of training is not attained, and if that level is not also maintained through practice. I attend a few training courses a year, both rifle and handgun, as well as shooting competitively at least once or twice each month. I see all kinds of errors, no matter what type of gun is used. Being military or law enforcement is no gaurantee of competency. A lot of military are given only a basic understanding of the manual of arms pertaining to the weapon they are issued. Cops often tend to shoot only when they need to qualify, which mystifies me, as I would think they would train more simply because of the nature of their job. According to Massad Ayoob the 1911 was designed for military use, in a combat situation. The scenario is: a soldier in a combat situation, an attack is eminent, the weapon is made ready, safety applied, hostile forces present themselves, the safety is removed and everyone not wearing the same uniform as the user is a target. Although the gun is pressed into service for many other uses in military service, this is its primary purpose. It was not designed with the idea of holding an attacker at gunpoint while calling for help, being carried day in day out in populated non hostile situations and so forth. This is not said to down those who carry the 1911, that is your choice, and it is a fine weapon, just not one to be considered by the inexperienced, or poorly trained. 
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#32
09-21-2009, 08:14 AM
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JL,
This is not intended or directed just to you, but to anyone on a board or this board. If a person wants to comment on history or design they must, I repeat, must, know that history or design. In the case of the 1911, it was not designed or intended or built to do anything but replace a weak energy, double action, revolver, curently in military service. The cocked and locked carry was specificly created to replace the DA revolver's capability of pull trigger and fire with a loaded cylinder. Nothing else. The "we can't do that" situation came later from military officers within units that thought the cocked and locked carry was not safe, due to their inexperance with the gun and the design of the gun, in the first place. They then, and many today, simply can not get it through their head that a 1911 has 3 safety features that must be acted upon before it can be fired from the condition 1, locked and cocked position. 1)The thumb safety must be put on the fire position. 2) The grip safety must be depressed. 3) The trigger must be pulled and held. Number 2 and 3 must both be done at the same time. You can not fire a 1911 by tapping the trigger with a pencil, even with the grip safety held down. Nor can you pull and hold the trigger without the grip safety depressed. I think you have misunderstood what MA has said or intended. Otherwise MA would have forgotten that the military has several layers of police and that regular GIs are not and never have been issued handguns, only those with a handgun TO&E (Army term) are issued handguns. As an example, I was an armoror in the 101st Abn. I had 300 M-16s and 24 1911s. The 1911 were issued to officers, grenadiers, machinegunners, and very few NCOs. Best, Ed
__________________
The three Rs: Respect for self; Respect for others; and responsibility for all your actions. "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death!"
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#34
09-23-2009, 11:33 AM
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Rapier,
You make some valid points. As I do not know the story of how the military came to mandate their style of carry for the 1911, I will defer to your wisdom on that. As to the troops issued the gun through the years, there are many documented cases of combat troops getting and using arms they were not officially issued. I have a coworker from Boston who was in the Navy, he doesn't know one end of a gun from the other, but he knows he was issued a .45 pistol. So my point was, maybe a 1911 is not the best weapon for daily carry for an inexperienced individual. 1911s are more prone to being malfunctioned by the user, due to the safety aspects you mention. Thumb safties get knocked back on, a proper firing grip is not obtained activating the grip safety, slide stops get activated. Not to mention the fact that the more highly tuned they get, the more ammo finicky they are. In just about any match or shooting school I have attended the bulk of the down time is due to someone, usually an inexperienced shooter, trying to get his 1911 sorted out. My opinion, and everyone has one  , is that a glock, sig, or some such system is preferable for everyday carry. You cant beat those 1911s for target work though, and they sure are pretty.
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#35
09-24-2009, 05:30 PM
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#36
09-30-2009, 08:29 AM
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I think we have all heard or seen about this clip....so much for the 'safety' of the glock. I think that the bottom line is this: it is the nut behind the trigger that is responsible for safety.
Choose your gun based on your needs, and then PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE.................. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PYHR72u51Q ...and then there is this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CT0CTbO7L44
__________________
If your dog thinks that your the greatest, don't go seeking a second opinion!
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#37
10-01-2009, 07:54 AM
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For some reason several of you just did not understand my statement, so I will repeat it, "only those with a handgun TO&E (Army term) are issued handguns." TO&E for those not framiliar with the term is the military regulations that set forth the equipment every troop of every job class will be issued, from fork to weapon.
It does not make any difference if you are Army, Navy or Marines. If your job, at any time, calls for a handgun to be issued to you, you are issued a handgun, period, no other time, and that is by regulation. So if a unit has handuns it is by regulation, if a navy troop has a handgun issued it is by regulation. You can change jobs on a temp basis and a rifleman will have a handgun issued for that job, but the temp job class calls for a handgun. Troops in the military do not just wonder around with issued handguns just because they want one. That is just more Hollywood BS. As an armorer, I had to know the regulations as every one wanted to carry a handgun while just walking around or on manuvers. Then everone wanted a rifle, no one wanted a handgun as a principal weapon, when the ballon went up. What happens in combat, is a whole different matter, folks tend to pick up all manner of field junk and carry it. Example, in Europe in WWII very few GIs did not carry a small German or Italian pistol of some description in 32, 380 or 25. You see them everywhere in the US as returned souviners. 90% of all failures with a clip fed handgun are the result of clip problems, not a problem with the gun itself. Best, Ed
__________________
The three Rs: Respect for self; Respect for others; and responsibility for all your actions. "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death!"
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#38
10-01-2009, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Oh man, those videos are completely scary. So, is the problem the officers or the glock?
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