Magnums Not Needed (Elk & Deer)

[Skinny Shooter]

Originally posted by Rocky Raab
ILast week, some of the Mods got together in Pennsylvania to whack some ground hogs and meet each other (for the first time!). Petey and some others shot super-hyper calibers, and managed to hit hogs at nearly 700 yards. Honest.

I was only using my 308Win...
Maybe that's why I didn't hit anything farther than 350.

[phillip morris]

I think you have it right on the magnums
I used one for years , I got tierd of the
recoil and the weight , I switch to a 270
first year I killed a 4 point bull flip him
head over heels at 175 yards . I think
that it enoff power for any one . I think
most guys use the big bores for hype
and show . My uncal always told me to
use one gun ,git to know it and know it
in side and out and you will kill any thing
that you want
Camo, I like it for one reasson or mybe
two. I like to hide from the hunters and
most of your sent locks come in camo, I
know you can buy a sent lock suit but for
the same coast I can git water proof ,sent
lock and warmth all in one instead of
buying 3 or 4 differant artcales of colthing .

[buckeye22]

To razmuz: I don't think you were beating around the bush - you said what you meant and I agree with a whole lot of what you are saying! It seems every couple of years or so the gun media and manufacturers go wild trying to come up with something new for hunters and sportsmen to spend their monies on when the stuff that has been out for decades is darn hard to improve upon - especially when it comes to cartridge designs. About 98% of all this WSM and WSSM stuff is sales hype and trajectory chart exaggerations in order to either maintain or to boost sales. I'm not against progress but you can manipulate the laws of physics only so much with certain givens, and this stuff has been worked on by gun nuts and experts for decades and decades!

[Steve Franks]

When I started hunting years ago, I would agree with you. Krags, .300 Savages, .30-30's, and the real cannon was an '06 were the calling of the day. Game in the West was more plentiful, less hunting pressure, and more places to hunt, hence closer shots. If you want to just fill the pot, the I will agree with you and even in the West where I hunt, a handgun is all you would need.

Now I haven't killed a deer in years. I've killed enough deer I don't need to "just kill a deer". I don't "need" the meat, if I did, I sure a heck wouldn't be hunting with the cost of gas, licenses, and associated costs, I after "the" deer. When I get him, I cherish each and every bite as I look at his head on my wall.

I carry a 7mm Remington Magnum and pass up 27"-29" bucks every year. I'm looking for something over 30". It just maybe over 250 yards and I'm a horrible judge of distance and wind speed. I sight my rifle in 3" high at 100 yards and I'm pretty good on holding hair out to about 375 yards and my friends, thats alot of fudge factor. Yes, I have a laser range finder, but sometimes you just don't have the time to get it out. I shoot heavy bullet so as to not blood shoot the meat and to get the flat trajectory and penetration if I get a less then perfect broadside shot.

Elk, now that's a different story. I see hackers every year and it doesn't matter what caliber, that can't shoot, wound animals, and can't track an elephant thru a snow bank. I agree the magnum shooters seem to practice less because of cost or they are afraid of the recoil and noise of their rifles. It's marksmanship, but it still requires a heavy bullet, because try as we may, sh.. happens. A light bullet that doesn't penetrate all the way through an animal only damages half of the animal. I've only kill a dozen or so elk, but all have been dropped dead in their tracks. The rifle was my 7mm with a Speer Grand Slam 160 grain and they have all exited.

I use Redfield one piece bases because my 56 year old Model 70 Winchester had it's holes drilled off center! Cranking all the windage adjustment on the Leupold scope couldn't get it centered up on the paper at 100 yards. With the windage adjustment I could get the "rough" adjustment completed, then center up the windage adjustment on the scope.

As for camo, it's the broken pattern. I agree folks have gone crazy, but, they have really done us a great service for varmit and waterfowl hunting.

Bottom line the excise tax we pay on all our hunting and fishing gear pays supports wildlife resources those sandal wearing grandol bar munching freaks like to go to so they can knock we who pay for it all.

[mdbuckle]

Just shoot whatever you like to shoot. It doesn't matter at all! I hunt mainly moose and caribou and have used everything from 223 to 300 WSM's. They all kill! I've even seen a moose get taken down with a .22 rimfire. If you like the gun, and can shoot it well then use it. I've even killed my share of geese with my 30-06, hahaha! And still had lots of meat left for cookin, lol

[rem 700]

I like big guns for long range, quick acting performance-flat trajectory and low wind drift makes it easy to shoot something at a long distance.

[Evan03]

im tired of the wsm specific bashing latly,

i think that it needs to be made that if your to talk down on a caliber that one qualification has to be that youve atleast yanked the trigger on it ounce.

[brandoneh297]

How about this then, you use your .308 or whatever non-magnum of your choosing on an elk standing 500 yards away and I'll use my .325 wsm. We'll see who drops the elk faster. Personally I like the extra firepower so I dont have to walk so far to retrieve my animal. Both can kill but I trust the extra power to fly through bone. I killed a gemsbock a couple of years ago with my dad. He used a 3006 and I was using a .300 weatherby mag. After both shooting at him and not nowing for sure who got him we field dressed the animal. Both of his bullets were found stuck in the shoulder while the .300 weatherby had made it completely through both sides destroying everything in its path.

[Evan03]

im not saying the wsm's are the cream of the crop. as far as im concernd they are just difrent and thats good. i have tried the 270wsm. ive got the dies on my reloading bench and dont plan to give them up because i happen to like the caliber. but wasnt particularly fond of the rifle the caliber was chamberd in.

me im not magnum shooter. ive the magnum thing a try with the 300winnie, but to alot its no magnum. and to be honest it had quite alot of recoil for a rifle that weighed over 8lbs without scope on it.

thats the reason i went back to lighter rifle in the 3006. recoil compared to the heavy 300win woulkd be debatable on wether or not its less due to the rifle weigh almost 1lb less.. i actualy sited in the 3006 and punched out enough groups to burn up all 20rds i had on hand the last time out.

the 300win i bore sited at 25yds steped back to one hundred. fired two rds made scope adjustments. fired two more and it was dialed in. shot 3 more into decent group and i was ready for elk season and not wanting to touch the thing from the bench anymore. i even tried fitting alittle sand bag between the but and myshoulder but that just didnt work well.

maybe if i put in 50lbs or so in my older ages ill give her ago again. just right now its not my cupp of tea.

but with my270wsm exsperince id have to say the 300wsm may be calling my name but i cant say how ill like it or if it becomes my dream caliber.

then i see all these people downing calibers that are new and havent tried them just because theyre new is no reason to like or dislike them. you may be set in your ways other hunters might not.

let the hunters who have exsperince with the calibers give the best information. ill tell you i concider the wsm and win277 calibers about as close to identical as you can get. but i still like them both alot.

Evan

[brandoneh297]

I understand people not liking the magnums or larger calibers because they don't enjoy the recoil and they feel comfortable making a kill shot with a smaller caliber. I have no argument with that. I know a man from India who's killed many blue bulls with a .22lr. Everybody has their own preference. As long as they can make an ethical and clean kill shot then I dont care. Every caliber from a .22 on up has the potential to kill. Very few can blow through a big game animals shoulder blade like it wasn't even there though. A .243 to the shoulder on an elk and thats an injured animal, a .338 winchester mag and that elk isn't going far, if it even moves at all. I personally just like using the larger calibers because it leaves less room for human error and to be honest I really enjoy the recoil on a rifle as long as it doesnt break my shoulder. Why else would I have a .50 bmg and a 500 smith and wesson in my gun collection?

[PJgunner]

Razmuz said, "I don't care where you hunt or what you hunt magnums calibers are not needed. If you just use common sense you will figure out that about 50% of hunting stuff is not necessary."

I have to partially disagree with you. There's only been one time a magnum might have been better, IE, easier to make the shot at a long range deer, but I did make the shot with a .308.

However, the area where I hunt elk, a .300 Win. Mag. can come in mighty handy. In the area I prefer to hunt, mostly because I know it like the back of my hand, once the shooting starts on opening day, the elk head out into the middle of these humongous meadows where they can see a hunter coming from a very long way off. One of these meadows is at least two miles across and over five miles long. You definitely need something that will reach out and touch that elk. The good old 30-06 just won't cut it. I shoot a .300 Win. mag. with a 200 gr. Speer Hot-core laoded to a very hot 2950 FPS and I can hit the ram silhouettes fairly consistantly out there at 500 meters with that load from a decent sitting postion. The cow elk that I shot was laser measured at 530 yards, and I was behind the very last bit of cover available. The bullet hit about four inches below the spine, going through the top of the heart lung area and came out the other side with about a three inch exit wound. The cow elk was an immediate bang/flop. I probably could have made the shot with an 06, but it was a heck of a lot easier with the .300.

As far as the rest of your comments, I'll go along with you on them.
Paul B.

[Evan03]

also id like us to define magnum.

maybe even magnum performance, maybe even magnum calibers.

how bout magnum leupold.

how bout 3006remmag. it very well could have ben but the big M word wasnt tacked to its name at birth..

maybe the 300win never got listed as mag.

i consider all these standerd power calibers
243
6mm
308
2506
7mm08
300win
3006
270win
270wsm
300wsm

to me in mind anyways all these are standerd calibers and the magnum list starts somewhere else. though im not exackly sure where thats at because i dont even know about all the calibers out there.

i do know the 300win and wsm maybe the largets standerd calibers i ever end up with.

Evan

[Andy L]

Evan, thats ignorant. Not stupid, but ignorant.

300 Win Mag is a belted, full blown magnum cartridge. You can classify a 50BMG as a standard caliber if you wish, but that doesnt mean its the truth, outside your world.

Sorry, but I had to say something.....

Andy

[Evan03]

ignorance is bliss.

regardless of what the 300win phisicaly is i dont care. it doesnt fit in my big magnum boomer stay away from caliber list. im sure theres a few more magnums that i can shoot and wont blink my eyes at but the biguns are just plain magnums true to the name.

i may have worded this one alittle wrong ohhwell. i was trying to prove a point and thats very hard to do in this company. almost not worth trying most times. atleast i tried.

so if ignorance is bliss then im just fine and so are so many others.

Evan



my world is the same as yours its just how i view it thats difrent. i tend to like the view ive got from here.

somehow somewhere in the magnum caliber realm of things our views blend together and i see the 50bmg the same as you. but i bet that view is closer way down on the caliber list than we might think.

knowing what i know im pretty sure thats true. i know thats true because we both shoot certain calibers because they are not magnums

[Jack]

Ya know, Evan might be onto something.....
Myself, I like magnums: I shoot a 222 Remington Magnum quite often. You think it's not a magnum? It says "Magnum" right on the barrel, and on every box of ammo.
So, it must be a magnum- belt or no belt.