Battle of the Bulge Match

[Gil Martin]

We held our annual Battle of the Bulge military rifle match today at a local gun club. Despite cold temperatures and snow, we had a number of shooters show up in costume. On the line were a 1903 Springfield and several M1 Garands. A local policeman brought a live German MG34 machinegun and a live MP44 Strumgewher. After the match, we took turns shooting these vintage weapons. I hope the pictures come out OK so I can post them. All the best...
Gil

[dovehunter]

Where on earth did that guy with the Sturmghewehr find ammo for it? I have always understood that that short 8mm round was about as rare as hen's teeth.

[buckhunter]

A Stumghewehr-Thats awesome.

Was the MG 34 WWI version? What were the WWII MG's?

[Mr. 16 gauge]

Was the MG 34 WWI version? What were the WWII MG's?

I don't believe that the MG34 was around during WWI; most of the machine guns at that time were of the heavy, crew served type.

Where on earth did that guy with the Sturmghewehr find ammo for it? I have always understood that that short 8mm round was about as rare as hen's teeth.

Probably hand rolled his own.....IIRC, the base of the 7.92x33 was the same as the 8mm mauser, so cutting down cases and reforming them shouldn't be too much of a challenge. I'm interested in where he is finding bullets; Speer used to make a 125 grain .323 bullet for the 8 x 57 mauser, but I think that it's been out of production for a while.

We held our annual Battle of the Bulge military rifle match today at a local gun club. Despite cold temperatures and snow, we had a number of shooters show up in costume.

How did you hold this "match"? You didn't pit the Germans against the Allies, did you? Did any interesting sidearms show up, such as Radoms, Nazi marked Hi-powers, Lugers, ect?

I hope the pictures come out OK so I can post them.

Looking forward to seeing them!

[Gil Martin]

The MG34 was made between WWI and WWII and is a superb piece of equipment. The policeman that brought these vintage arms to the range uses Serbian ammo for the 7.92 Kurtz and 8mm Mauser. I hope we can open the link below. This is yours truly holding the MG34. I shot it at 100 yards and tore up the target. The MP44 was a joy to shoot at 50 yards. All the best...
Gil




http://webmail.att.net/wmc/en-US/v/w...=ATT986537.jpg

[dovehunter]

I could open the link okay but once I got there a password was required. I guess one needs to have an account, logon, etc. to access anything on that site.

[Jack]

I believe the MG34 dates from- you guessed it! 1934. The later MG42 was easier to manufacture, but never totally replaced the MG34. Both fired 8x57 Mauser ammo, so no problem there.
Ammo for the STG44 is scarce, but a little less scarce in Europe. In the 1950's, one of Sako's earlier ventures was the 7x33 Sako cartridge, designed for seal hunting. The parent cartridge from which the 7x33 Sako case came? The 7.92 Kurz.
I wouldn't be a bit surprised if either the 7x33 Sako or 7.92 Kurz is still available in Europe.

[Rapier]

That MG-42 according to German troops I have talked to over the years was a hard hog to feed. They did not like it much. I have known two 101st troopers shot by one, the 42 will sew a mean stitch and it was not uncommon for a standing soldier to be hit 4-6 times in a single sweeping burst due to the high rate of fire.

The 34 was very popular as it fires semi auto and full auto, quite similar to a belt fed BAR in its use. The trigger has two parts on a hinge with one part, the top I believe firing semi auto. But I do get them confused until I get the gun in my hands. The 34 is prized by collectors for its obvious quality and machined parts.

I was very privileged to be in the 101st Airborne during a time when the WWII veterans were still there and it was a great privilege to spend many nights talking War Stories with them. We also had a very large "Gentle Giant" of a man, Otto Gossman, a former sergeant of the 2nd Fallschirmjäger Division in our unit. The 101st fought the 2nd all over Europe and jumped in right on top of them in Holland where they were in R&R camp. Otto was a life long professional soldier. Good man to have at your back when things went south.
Best,
Ed

[buckhunter]

Didn't Germany produce a MG 44 which was a upgrade form the MG42. Understand when they let them go it sounded like canvas ripping. Scared the crap out of the Allies.

[Gil Martin]

This opens for me. The MG34 trigger has two loops and the lower fires semi-auto and the upper loop fires full auto. What a gun! All the best...
Gil




http://webmail.att.net/wmc/en-US/v/w...=ATT986537.jpg

[Rapier]

A lot of folks get the MP-44 and the MG-42 confused due the the similar numbers. What you describe is the MG-42 which according to every single GI I have ever talked to was a real awe inspiring gun to face. Unlike US guns with bores slightly over bore to add spread to the shots, the 42 was machined well and the shots went into one area. The effect was like a hose. If the gun was fixed to anything solid, like a tank turrent, it was awsome and scary as all hell. It would bring a cold sweat. The M-60 has a cyclic rate of fire of about 600 RPM, the 42 had several models with different cyclic rates but the average was about 1750 the highest was about 2,000. In several old news reels you can actually hear it firing and it is just a long Rippppp sound. The shots were so close together as to be one noise, similar to the electric gatling guns of today.
Best,
Ed

[GoodOlBoy]

Still wont open Gil, it opens for you because you have your username and password saved in your browser.

Interesting match btw.

GoodOlBoy

[Dutchman01]

Originally Posted by buckhunter

A Stumghewehr-Thats awesome.

Was the MG 34 WWI version? What were the WWII MG's?

The mg 34 was ww2.

[Joe Boleo]

Sounds like a great match and a good time. The link would not open for me. Try to copy and paste the picture. Want to see what that MG34 looks like. Take care...
Joe

[skeet]

My father in law was a machine gun squad leader in Europe 1944. He told me he captured a few of those MG-42's and used 'em....BUT..due to the distinctive sound he got rid of 'em real quick. He was shootin at the Germans..and they shot back..facing their own guns..and the sound drew fire from the American side. He figured that all those bullets couldn't miss so he burned 'em down to scrap with thermite. He said when they opened up with one of 'em you just kept your head down. This from a guy who earned a Silver Star, 2 Bronze Stars, Croix de Guerre and some kind of stuff from the Brits who he fought with(commando raiding) for 3 1/2 yrs. Only opposition he said he was ever scared of. Oh...and the Sihks that the Brit commando teams usually had on them. He said they were scary dudes. Liked knives alot he said... I have a whole lot of tapes I made while he was talking about the war. He was a bit of a scary guy himself. Wounded 4 times. He and his partner captured a Tiger tank..