Shotshell Bulges

[Duffy]

I have started reloading Federal shotshells on my new MEC 600 Jr., and have a question about bulging hulls. As I reload, some shells seem to come out OK, but others wind up with bulges in the hull just above the metal base. Has anyone else experienced this, and if so, how did you fix it? Is an adjustment needed on the crimping station?

Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[skeet]

I know federals... but they make many. You probably need to back off on the final crimp a bit. Usually happens when there is too much pressure there. Maybe a half turn on the stem..

[dovehunter]

I too have experienced this problem with the cheaper Federal shells and mostly in 20 ga. I believe the problem is that there is less interior volume in their shells with the tapered, fiber base wad, at least as compared to Remington's STS and Winchester's A-A cases. When you use the same or similar loads in the Federal shells it fills the case too much and, when you apply a crimp, it crushes them right above the brass. I have never liked Federal shells for reloading and still don't. However if you go to a plastic wad that is not so tall - say going from a Rem. RXP-20 to SP-20 - that usually seems to cure the problem, at least in my case.

[Duffy]

Originally Posted by skeet

I know federals... but they make many. You probably need to back off on the final crimp a bit. Usually happens when there is too much pressure there. Maybe a half turn on the stem..

Skeet:

I have about 400 of the Federal Top Guns which I wanted to get started on, and then I planned on moving on to Federal plastic Gold Medals. After I had posted my question last night, I looked again at the manual, and it does mention about hull bulging, and offers several suggestions including using less dense powder, less shot, a shorter wad, etc., but all of the components I am using are the very ones prescribed for the loads I am working. Then it mentioned adjusting the wad pressure and adjusting the final crimp, as you suggest. I will give that a try tonight and see what happens. What I find especially puzzling is the inconsistency in that that some loads came out looking OK, when others had the bulges.

Originally Posted by dovehunter

I too have experienced this problem with the cheaper Federal shells and mostly in 20 ga. I believe the problem is that there is less interior volume in their shells with the tapered, fiber base wad, at least as compared to Remington's STS and Winchester's A-A cases. When you use the same or similar loads in the Federal shells it fills the case too much and, when you apply a crimp, it crushes them right above the brass. I have never liked Federal shells for reloading and still don't. However if you go to a plastic wad that is not so tall - say going from a Rem. RXP-20 to SP-20 - that usually seems to cure the problem, at least in my case.

Dovehunter:

I slit open one of the empty Top Guns and noticed the taper on the fiber base wad, and can see what you mean. I am using the prescribed wad for the load, however, but maybe making the adjustments as mentioned above may work for now. I have heard many good things about the Remington STSs, and after I get my feet wet with these cheaper Federals, I may go to the STSs.

Thank you both for very much for your input. Anyone else?

[Mr. 16 gauge]

How old is your data, and how old are your cases?

In my experience, one of the things I've found is that over the years shotshell makers change the structure of their shotshells. I have some older 16 gauge Federal hulls & some of the newer ones made recently. If you ask Federal, they are the same hull, and are made by the same process.....but the plastic on the older hulls is stiffer/thicker, and in some cases loads better.

I was working on developing a buffered bismuth & a buffered turkey load. I had problems with the cases bulging as you described on some of the hulls, but not on others. Closer inspection revealed that the shells that bulged were of recent manufacture; the ones that loaded up O.K. were older hulls or those manufactured originally for steel shot.

Just my experience, FWIW....

[skeet]

Are not bad cases. The 12 ga case that loads longer than any other even when Win AAs were the originals are the 12 ga Federal Gold Medal.. Top Guns are of course different. I load many of them...or did and never really had any problems. They usually take a different crimp but they work just fine when you get it set for them.. The crimp will look a bit different than on all plastic shells. STS is a good shell to load but will take a differnt load altogether. I have a few thousand Top guns here(bought 'em at a yard sale for 5 bucks). What is your load for them. I'll check 'em in my loader.. I really do think it is the loader's crimp adjustment..

[dovehunter]

I was talking about the Federal promo shells like the "game loads", etc. that have that huge fiber base wad. I have not had problems with the one piece Federal hulls like the Gold Medal, etc. Even the cheapo Winchester and Reminton shells though that I have cut apart appear to have the same one-piece, solid plastic construction as their AA and STS shells respectively. My personal favorites are the Remingon STS. They can be reloaded until you shoot off the crimp or you get cracks in the body where the crimp folds over. I don't keep track of the number of times I can reload shotshells but I know I have loaded some of my Remington STS shells 6-8 times or more. Also my favorite gunshop sells once-fired STS hulls in bags of 100 for about 3-4 bucks.

I am not anti-Federal. I have had good luck with their metallic cartridge cases and think they hold up just as well as their Remington and Winchester counterparts. I guess most everyone sticks with what works best (or lasts the longest) for them and for me, where shotshell hulls are concerned, that has definitely been Remington.

[skeet]

Wayyy back yonder when Winchester designed the original AA case it surely was one piece. Remington tried for years to make a case as good as the AA. RXP..Blue magic..Green Premier and Finally..they pretty much gotrdone with the STS. Even though they started(for all intents and purposes) the plastic shell revolution most of 'em sucked. Now that the AA is no longer compression formed(bean counters ya know) but made in 3 pieces..they kinda suck and the Remington is king of the heap. Gold Medals have lasted up to(and more) 25 loads but they were definitely ugly. The 20 ga that lasted the longest for me was the older RXP 20 with the light ribs. I have actually gotten as many as 20 loads from them. Not pretty ya understand cause they turned black but every time I tried to throw one away it kind stuck to my fingers..just couldn't let 'em go. After 5 loads they were used ONLY for practice loads. I still have some of them from the late 80's I guess. All my serious competition loads were in 1-4 times fired. and any messed up crimps went into the practic bucket. I don't box shells. Too much work. I put 'em in 5 gal buckets and get a pouch full when I'm gonna shoot 'em. A 5 gal bucket of 410s is an impressive sight..especially after you shot 'em all..and only missed twice(yeah, right!). Love to shoot the 410... 28's and 410s only last about 4 or 5 loadins before they are done. The old AAs in 410 were strange. Some would last 10 loadings while others from the same box would only go one or 2 before splitting. 28's were terrible. The STS 28 is pretty good for 4 loads..sometimes 5. 410 Remingtons about 3 or 4. I never really worry about 12 ga much anymore. I load 'em and let 'em fly so have a tendency to shoot the cheapies cause I only load 'em once.. I can get 'em for nothing anyway. BTW how much is shot running in your areas? Like to find out from all over the country.

BTW one time quite a few years ago I loaded 2 mixed boxes of 12 ga shells. All kinds of shells from cheap to expensive hulls. Left 'em outside in the open, although in boxes, for over 2 yrs. Same load in all of 'em with the wad that fit. Went out there one day and got 'em. Took 'em to the skeet club and shot 'em. Ran 50 straight without even one off sounding shell. Speaks volumes for the plastic shells we have today

[dovehunter]

Originally Posted by skeet

...BTW how much is shot running in your areas? Like to find out from all over the country...

I was at the gunshop yesterday and, though I wasn't looking for shot, I did sort of look down out the corner of my eye. If my memory serves me I think the whole rack was marked $39.95. Seems like the last bag I bought, which was some time last year, was $19.95. Wow that's a 100% price increase in less than a year. Of course I was finding the same thing with commercial cast lead bullets - usually more than a 100% price increase. This was in the Richmond, Va. area.

[fabsroman]

With the Mec 600 Jr. you can adjust the wad seating guide and pull it down a little further to make sure you are seating the wad correctly. Make sure that you see some pressure on the gauge when you seat the wad. I believe there is a little red arrow or something above the wad/powder/shot tube that will show the wad seating pressure. Your problem might be that you are not seating the wad all the way down on top of the powder.

I would post a picture of what I am talking about, but my Mec 600 Jr. is at my parents' place right now.

[Duffy]

Originally Posted by fabsroman

With the Mec 600 Jr. you can adjust the wad seating guide and pull it down a little further to make sure you are seating the wad correctly. Make sure that you see some pressure on the gauge when you seat the wad. I believe there is a little red arrow or something above the wad/powder/shot tube that will show the wad seating pressure. Your problem might be that you are not seating the wad all the way down on top of the powder.

Success! I tried both suggestions, increasing the wad pressure and backing off the final crimp a bit, and now they are coming out perfectly. Thanks to all for your suggestions.

Now to try them out...