Real gun or not?

[fabsroman]

That was actually pretty interesting. Didn't know that you guys were firing from that far up.

Next question, are you firing practically straight down? I would assume that a bullet would lose a ton of velocity at 8,000 meters.

[BILLY D.]

FABS 160KTS AT 40 DEGREES. 100# AMMO CN NOW WEIGHS 400#, WHY GUNNERS KNUCKLES DRAGGED ON THE GROUND.

[fabsroman]

Okay, I understand what the 40 degrees means, but what does the 160 KTS mean. Is that 160 knots? If it is knots, then I understand what that means too.

At 8,000 meters, how did you guys compensate for bullet drop or did the computer take care of that? Hell, how did you compensate for lead?

[gumpokc]

Originally posted by gd357
Ok, this has been bugging me for a while, and I can't find anything online, so I'll ask all of you. I've seen a weird gun in a few movies, and it's driving me nuts that I can't confirm if it's real or not. It appears to be a 9mm carbine, but it has 6 barrels and they revolve like a gatling gun. It's most likely a fake, but I figured that if it was made, someone here could enlighten me on it. Thanks

gd357

just checked out the IMDB page for deep rising, it says under trivia that the pirates "pulse guns" were very heavily modified calico m-960's.

[BILLY D.]

FABS

160 IS KNOTS, THE FLIGHT SPEED. I'M SORRY, SOMETIMES I FORGET EVERYBODY IS NOT FAMILIAR WITH TERMINOLOGY, AND I SCREWED UP ANYWAY AND HIT A WRONG KEY, IT'S A 30 DEGREE BANK. I HAVE TO START PROOF READING BETTER.

[BILLY D.]

FABS

OOPS AGAIN, THE COMPUTER TOOK CARE OF LEAD AND DROP. THE ONLY ADJUSTMENT IN THE BACK OF THE AIRCRAFT WAS AN ELEVATION ADJUSTMENT TO THE GUN PODS. THE GUN PLUMBERS AND AVIONICS GUY LINED THAT UP ON THE GROUND. BORE SIGHTING IF YOU WILL.

IT WAS STANGE TO WATCH THE GUNS FIRE AND YOU COULD SEE THE TRACERS GOING TO THE GROUND IN FRONT OF THE AIRCRAFT.

THE AAA REACTED JUST THE OPPOSITE. THE FIRST TIME I HAD TO BE A SCANNER I GOT SICK TO MY STOMACH. EVEN THOUGH I HAD BEEN TRAINED BY A PERSON LOOKING OVER MY SHOULDER AND WE WERE ON INTERCOM TALKING TO EACH OTHER. I WAS SCARED TO DEATH. IT'S A BIG RESPONSIBILITY, LIFE AND DEATH ARE RIDING ON YOUR DECISIONS ALONG WITH A VERY EXPENSIVE AEROSPACE VEHICLE.

I GOT A FUNNY STORY ABOUT AIR SICK AND SCARED, BUT IT'S NOT SOMETHING YOU WANT TO HEAR BEFORE BEDTIME OR UPON WAKING UP.

[gd357]

gumpokc,

Thanks! Kinda wonder whether they were actually functional, or just set up for "movie fire" (I'm not gonna bet that they actually work).

Wow! For all of the great info above and beyond what I was looking for, thanks! I was aware of the 20 and 30mm gatling guns that were used, as well as the miniguns, but had no idea the standard altitude, air speed, etc. they generally saw service under. The 20mm gatling gun also was fitted on the F-4 Phantoms as they initially came eqipped only for missiles and bombs. It was quite a success, and consequently they added the 20mm as standard armament.

gd357

[BILLY D.]

HEY GD

THEY USED TO HAVE AN AC-119K AT THE AIR FORCE MUSEUM AT WRIGHT PAT IN DAYTON. IT HAD QUITE A HISTORY. ON A MISSION IN LAOS ONE NIGHT IT HAD 14 1/2 FOOT OF THE LEADING EDGE OF THE STARBOARD WING SHOT OFF.

WITH MUCH DIFFICULTY AND AIRMANSHIP THE CREW GOT BACK TO THEIR BASE AT NAKHON PHANOM THAILAND. IT WAS A REAL FEAT. THE AIRCRAFT TAIL # WAS 883. AFTER IT WAS REBUILT IT HAD THE BEST RECORD OF A TRUCK KILLER. IN DECEMBER OF 1970 WE SHOT 26 TRUCKS ONE NIGHT AND AS FAR AS I KNOW THAT IS STILL A RECORD FOR A STINGER. THE CREW OF THAT AIRCRAFT WON THE MCKAY TROPHY FOR THEIR OUTSTANDING AIRMANSHIP. A GREAT STORY.

YOU MENTIONED THE F-4. THE GUNPODS THAT WERE USED ON THE F-4 WERE SIMILAR TO THE ONES IN THE GUNSHIPS. ON THE STINGER THE DRUM SIMPLY STOOD UP NEXT TO THE FLOOR MOUNTED M-61 AND WAS BELT FED. ALL ELECTRIC. ON THE F-4 THE GUNPODS WERE WING MOUNTED BY USING A WING PYLON AND STANDARD 14" BOMB RACK. THE NOSE GUN ON THE F-4E WAS A VAST IMPROVEMENT. THE AIR FORCE GOT THE F-4 FROM THE NAVY AND THERE WERE NOT MANY WEAPONS IN THE INVENTORY IT COULD NOT CARRY. THE AIR FORCE TURNED IT INTO A FLYING SMORGASBORD LITERALLY. MULEDEER CAN TELL YOU ALL ABOUT THAT.

THE FIRST GUNSHIPS THAT FLEW SIMPLY HAD SUU GUNPODS MOUNTED ON TOP OF A BOMBRACK AND PLACED ON A STAND AND POKED OUT THE AIRCRAFT WINDOW. SIGHTING DEVICES WERE VERY CRUDE.

GO TO WRIGHT PAT SOMETIME AND CHECK OUT THE AIR FORCE MUSEUM. PLAN ON SPENDING SOME TIME THOUGH. THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS TO SEE. 3 DAYS WOULD BE ABOUT RIGHT.

I'M ORIGINALLY FROM DAYTON. WE MOVED THERE WHEN I WAS A LITTLE GUY, SO I SPENT THE BETTER PART OF MY EARLY LIFE THERE. WE LIVED ABOUT 3 MILES SOUTH OF WRIGHT PAT. WRIGHT FIELD AND PATTERSON FIELD USED TO BE TWO SEPARATE ENTITIES WITH US/OHIO RT 4 SEPARATING THEM. NOW THEY ARE ONE. DAYTON IS RICH IN AVIATION HISTORY. AND OTHER HISTORY AS WELL. NATIONAL CASH REGISTER AND GM USED TO OWN THE TOWN.

WELL GOT TO GIT. HAVE A GOOD ONE.

[Andy L]

Billy,
Thanks for your writing. That is very interesting. You sound like you have had alot of experience. It also sounds if you were in combat alot. Thank you for that. We may not all be here yackin on the net without brave folks like yourself.

Good stories. Keep em coming.

Andy

[Rocky Raab]

Fabs (and others), just to explain how gunships do their deeds...

Once you find a target (using all the onboard self-contained wizardry or from a known target) the plane orbits at a constant airspeed, altitude and bank angle, with the target at the center of the circle. That minimizes the "lead" problem and allows you to keep a whole lot of steel on target because you aren't simply flying past.

The pilot, who has the trigger on his control yoke, aligns the computer-generated image of the target with the crosshair in his side-looking sight. When it all lines up, he squeezes.

The computer does all the ballistics calculations for the gun and ammo selected, but the crew and pilot need a LOT of coordinated skill to get the firing solution correct. As Billy said, it's pitch black night (the pilot never actually sees the target, just a blip in a black hole), there's turbulence, wind, unknown terrain...and oh yeah...bullets coming back up at you. Sometimes BIG bullets.

That scanner's job? The guy lays down on the open ramp at the rear, held in by one strap (no parachute - if it accidentally opened, the scanner would be torn in half) and airsurfing on the slipstream. Only the rushing air holds him up, because the edge of the ramp is somewhere below his bellybutton.

Oh, did he mention he's bouncing back there in the pitch black, nothing holding him up but air, and he's pointed backwards? As in 175 mph air UP your nose?

And his job is to see when the big anti-air cannons open up - or a SAM gets launched - and to call out evasive directions to the pilot. Except that since he's going backwards, left is right and it's so dark he never really knows where "down" is? Fun job.

I did it once, for about ten minutes and only over the Gulf of Mexico - but I'll salute the guys like Billy who did it for real. And mean it.

[BILLY D.]

ANDY

I NEVER TALKED ABOUT THIS VIETNAM WAR SUBJECT UNTIL I GOT ON THIS FORUM AND SOMEBODY SAID SOMETHING THAT REALLY SET MY SHORTS ON FIRE. I CAN'T RECALL WHAT IT WAS ALL ABOUT NOW. AND IT REALLY WASN'T ALL THAT IMPORTANT.

I SPENT ALMOST 5 YEARS IN SOUTH EAST ASIA. ONE AS A GENERALS ENLISTED AIDE. SOFT JOB, HE WAS AN AIR ATTATCHE IN THE EMBASSY IN VIENTIENNE LAOS. I WAS HIS COOK, BOTTLE WASHER, DRIVER AND BODY GUARD. GOT SOME FREE TRAINING AT QUANTICO OUT OF IT.

YOU TALK OF BRAVERY, I WASN'T BRAVE OR DIDN'T CONSIDER MYSELF TO BE, AS EVIDENCED BY MY POST ABOVE, WHEN I BLEW LUNCH ALL OVER LAOS BECAUSE I WAS SCARED. I HAVE TEETH, HAIR, GUTS, BRAINS AND BLOOD JUST LIKE ANY OTHER MORTAL. I DID WHAT I GOT PAYED TO DO.

NOW IF YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT HEROES AND BRAVERY THAT HAD TO BE MY WIFE. WHILE I WAS AWAY SHE HAD TO BE MOM AND DAD TO A HOUSEFUL OF KIDS, KEEP THE HOUSE REPAIRED, RUN KIDS ALL OVER HELL AND HALF GEORGIA, REPAIR THE CAR ETC ALL BY HERSELF. SHE WAS MY HERO.

I SPENT A LITTLE OVER 2 1/2 YEARS ON AIRCREW DUTIES FLYING ON BOTH STINGERS AND HELOS AS AN AERIAL GUNNER.

THE REST OF THE TIME I WAS AN AIR FORCE RAMP RAT. LOADED MUNITIONS ON AIRCRAFT.

I SERVED IN THE MILITARY FOR 27 YEARS AND LOVED EVERY MINUTE OF IT. I WOULDN'T CHANGE A THING. IT WAS A PAYBACK ANYWAY SO I DIDN'T LOOK AT IT AS JOB. IT WAS FOR WHAT THE UNITED STATES GAVE MY FAMILY AND I. FREEDOM FROM OPPRESSION.

I FEEL THAT I SHOULD APOLOGIZE TO GOOD OLD BOY FOR STEALING HIS THREAD. THANK YOU MY FRIEND. I SEE YOU FOUND WHAT YOU WERE SEEKING. I'M GLAD OF THAT. I GUESS THE END JUSTIFIES THE MEANS. BUT MY APOLOGY STILL STANDS.

THANKS.