Next President and why

[fabsroman]

There has to be a middle ground for immigration. We cannot just seal up the southern border and deport every illegal immigrant out there. First, both are monumental tasks. So, why not start by allowing the illegal immigrants to become legal. I'm not talking about all of them, but how about the ones that contribute to society? How about the ones that have not committed any felonies in this country? I know a couple of them that are here working on expired green cards, and what is really surprising is that they actually pay their taxes. How about we charge them a "back tax" to become legal, and then we go from there.

Then, we require law enforcement to crack down on the rest of the illegals. Most criminals will get caught again. So, how about requiring local law enforcement to communicate with INS. In the county I live in, it is local law enforcement's policy not to look into whether or not somebody taken into custody is an illegal immigrant. Heck, I know a guy that has been arrested twice, once for a DUI and another time for driving without a license, and after both trials they let him loose even though he is illegal.

I have a better idea, how about keeping all the hard working, law abiding illegals here and shipping the welfare recipients and criminally motivated illegals to South America. We can take care of two problems using an express lane.

[skeet]

I am going to ask you too . What part of illegal isn't understandable? I have no problem with immigration but the illegal part is a real problem. Those people broke our laws to come here. It really doesn't matter if they are contributing or not. He!! a drug dealer could argue that he contributes to society. In fact a lot of the illegal Mexicans came here with the tacit approval of their government. They send an awful lot of money back to Mexico to the detriment of our country while bringing in moneys that help the Mexican economy. Why do you think Mexico's Fox wrote the manual on how to come across to this country? There have been wars fought over less my friends. This is for all intents and purposes an invasion approved by the Mexican government. You think what I say is extreme?? Seriously think about it. Those illegals are in some cases a real drag on our economy. I also saw the illegals in Md get turned loose after being repeatedly caught driving without a license, uninsured and illegally tagged vehicles. You would have been jailed for the same infractions. We cannot afford the illegals any longer no matter what work they do. PBR even in what I consider convoluted thinking is right about a living wage....and illegals just make it easier for companies to not have to pay a living wage. I still say seal the border and collect up all the illegals and send them back to where they came...or even better seal the border and put them all on the other side and let Mexico have to deal with them. That country helped them get here in some cases. And yes, that does make me mad. It should do the same for y'all, too! I have compassion for those people...but I have more for the people that are citizens of this country...especially the ones who came here LEGALLY!

Middle ground?? I feel we passed the middle ground long ago!

[Purebred Redneck]

Originally posted by Andy L
In a nutshell, I hit it on the noggin right off the bat. Your just like the other clowns, PBR. You want your cut to be the same as everyone elses without having to work for it [...]
Get a life.

I don't know if you can't read or if you choose to read what you want to.

Never once did I say anything about feeding off the government, not working hard --- but you knew that.

It's hatefull, closeminded people like you that drove dozens of people off this fine site over the years. Anyone not exactly like you is dead wrong - democrats, moderate republicans, independants, apoliticals, or those that just don't want to read hatefull retoric
What a way to go through life.


As far as immigration goes, we absolutly need to take care of the problem as soon as we can.
1. A wall is not needed. The fact is that US employers knowingly hiring illegals is the problem. The crackdown needs to start there. Without jobs, there is no reason for illegals to be here. So I think we need to audit all the registered businesses in the US and look for employment verification. If we catch illegals while at work, we deport them. Likely, they will jump ship at the news and be back in mexico long before that happens. From then on, we fine the holy hell out of employers who engage in this activity when the government does yearly verification audits. And if the employers are repeat offenders, the government force closes their business and they are never allowed to open one in the US again.
That will be the end of the immigration problem.
As John McCain said a month ago in Michigan I believe, "We can't bring back the lost jobs, but we can create new ones".
And that might be what is best. We may have to chalk up the losses to mexico and china.

I'm all for small business - I think that's wonderfull. However, when a small business in the US has to send work to mexico for 5 dollars a day to make a profit, then they have no business being in business. It's better to merge companies or close up shop and work for someone else. Not all businesses can succeed and certain sectors need the benifits and stability of the numbers game that corporations provide.
To paraphrase Donald Trump, "There's not a thing wrong with working for someone else, raising a beautiful family, and retiring comfortably."

[fabsroman]

PBR,

They are getting tougher on employees, but they just aren't enforcing it enough. Honestly, I think the IRS and INS should get tougher.

Way too many people cheat on their tax returns, which really kills me. The IRS should audit anybody that keeps switching tax return preparers. I cannot tell you how many people shop around for preparers that are willing to take inappropriate deductions. With a tax gap of $240 billion, they should really work on being the nasty IRS of the 1980's and not the newer, friendlier IRS of the 2000's. That is also changing, but not as quickly as I would like.

Regarding illegal immigrants, I agree with you completely. If penalties were actually enforced against employers, this entire subject would be a moot point. The current penalty is $25,000 per illegal employee, and the IRS and state audit teams are linking their data together whenever they find a violation. A way that employers try to get around this problem is by hiring illegals as independent contractors. Then, withholding doesn't have to be done until the 3rd year the employee works for them. Essentially, an IRS notice is sent to the employer the first year the "independent contractor's" tax ID information does not match SSA and/or IRS records. To prevent withholding, the "independent contractor" merely has to sign a SS-9 form. After the 2nd 1099 does not match SSA and/or IRS records within a 3 year period, the "independent contractor" must get a certified form from SSA regarding his tax ID number or the employer is required to do backup withholding. At that point, the employer could merely give the "independent contractor" a 28% raise and everything would remain status quo for the employee.

There should be a special task force that looks for these trends in businesses and then does a surprise raid and/or an audit of the worker's status to determine if they were improperly classified as an independent contractor instead of as an employee.

By the way, the fine for employee somebody that is illegal is $25,000.

Oh yeah, an employer can also register with the SSA so that they can look up the validity of tax ID numbers. Guess how many willingly do that. There really is no excuse for employers hiring illegals, so I say enforce and fine away. Maybe a couple of businesses need to be put out of business to get the message across.

The next problem is how do we catch businesses that pay illegals with cash? That might be a little tougher.

[Purebred Redneck]

Originally posted by fabsroman

The next problem is how do we catch businesses that pay illegals with cash? That might be a little tougher.

Oh that's going to be incredibly difficult and expensive because someone would have to do a complete audit on the company. Then when money comes up missing, the gov would have to prove it went to illegals. Very very difficult.


Any leads would have to come from within (whistleblowers) and then it might be doable when the feds go waltzing through the front door one day after a long investigation. But you're walking a fine line of harrassment and discrimination - particularlly if an employee hates minorities and thinks they all work there illegally and he keeps calling the gov.

That's going to be tough

But yes, we need strict enforcement of the law


Oh and the tax writeoffs are ridiculas. Mortgage interest, children, IRA, education, etc are fine worthwhile writeoffs.
But when you have millionares declaring less than 10,000 dollars in taxable income (someone like K Fed that was in the news a couple months ago), something has to change.

[PJgunner]

PBR said, "As far as immigration goes, we absolutly need to take care of the problem as soon as we can.
1. A wall is not needed. The fact is that US employers knowingly hiring illegals is the problem. The crackdown needs to start there. Without jobs, there is no reason for illegals to be here. So I think we need to audit all the registered businesses in the US and look for employment verification. If we catch illegals while at work, we deport them. Likely, they will jump ship at the news and be back in mexico long before that happens. From then on, we fine the holy hell out of employers who engage in this activity when the government does yearly verification audits. And if the employers are repeat offenders, the government force closes their business and they are never allowed to open one in the US again.
That will be the end of the immigration problem.
As John McCain said a month ago in Michigan I believe, "We can't bring back the lost jobs, but we can create new ones".
And that might be what is best. We may have to chalk up the losses to mexico and china."

FINALLY! Something we can agree on. Arizona passed a law which went into effect January 1, 2008 which basically sez, "If you hire an illegal alien and afre cought, your business license is suspended for ten (10) days. If you comit a second offense, your license is permanently revoked."
The end result of this legislation is the departure of thousands of illegal aliens either to other states or back to Mexico. And yes, AZ is enforcing that law.
You don't need a federal law to get rid of them. Just have all the states pass similar legislation and enforce it.So far, it's working for us.

Paul B.

[billy ahring]

I wish I felt better about our government, but I don't and I don't feel that I'm in the minority on this. I voted for G W Bush and honestly I feel swindled. I'm ready for a change in President but I am not having good feelings about any candidate out there. I remember what my grandpa used to say about politics. " You can send an honest man to Washington, but he won't come back honest. No truer words have ever been spoken.

I fervently supported Bush up until the last 18 months or so and now I feel he has been an ineffectual buffoon of a president.. I fear he may go down in history as the WORST leader of this country ever. He has opened a can of worms that will have repercusions for no telling how long. One thing however will be certain, no child of G W Bush will be serving this country militarily and that you can take to the bank.

I even bristle at the thought of his "tax rebate" to spur the downward spiralling economy. I would gladly forfeit mine if some government official what have the cajones to stand up to big oil and say all right Mother Fers no more gouging the American public. You will charge a fair price for your product and nothing more. These god d!#n oil companies plead poverty and record record profits quarter after quarter.

Big oil runs this country and we as citizens can whine and complain all we want but in the end we have to roll over and take it like the weenies we are. You wanna go to work? Your gonna have to pump some gas and get raped in the process.

Makes my blood boil. Sorry for the rant but I've lost faith in my government

[fabsroman]

Billy,

I think the oil companies should be investigated for price fixing, but otherwise, I think they should be able to set whatever price they want. With competition, they shouldn't be able to price gouge. Something tells me that there is some price fixing going on.

Telling the oil companies what they can charge is just like communism. Next, we'll be telling the doctors, attorneys, CPA, construction contractors, plumbers, etc. what they can charge.

If you don't want to drive too far to work, move closer. Problem is that most people bought their nice house with a nice yard over an hour away from work because they couldn't afford the same thing in the city. I had a client move over an hour away from work because he could get a house for 1/4 to 1/5 of what the same house cost by his work. At first, everything was fine. Then, he started complaining that the hour drive was getting longer and longer because the traffic was getting worse. Everybody had the same idea he had. So instead of spending 2 hours on the road, he was spending 4+ a day on the road. Because he was always late, he was always speeding. He got a ton of tickets, lost his license, got busted twice for driving with a suspended license, was sentenced to a month in jail, and lost his job.

I work from home, but my wife is currently driving 40 minutes each way to the job she just started 5 months ago, which is less than the hour plus she used to drive each way before that. We are looking to buy a house now, and we will be buying it in a more expensive area, closer to her work, just so she can cut down on her drive time, the mileage on the car, and the gas bill. I'll also be closer to my parents so they can help with baby sitting. It will probably cost us $100K more than buying it further away, but it will be worth it over 30 years.

Everybody wants the big house and the big yard for cheap. The thing is, the price paid for the house remains the same over 30+ years. The price of gas, cars, and vehicle service escalates.

High gas prices also helps prevent pollution because less people are willing to drive around just for the heck of it.

I could really get started on the number of trucks and SUV's that I see with a single person in them, but that would be a long tirade too. I figured out that at today's gas prices, it would probably be cheaper for a person to buy a second small car like a Ford Focus that gets 35 miles to the gallon, versus driving a truck or SUV that gets 15 or less miles to the gallon. At $3 per gallon and driving 15,000 miles a year, the gas savings between the two is $1,800. In 8 years or 120,000 miles, the Ford Focus will have paid for itself, not to mention the fact that the more expensive truck/SUV wouldn't be destroyed being driven on miles that its size/towing/hauling capacity are not needed on.

As you can probably tell, I'm not very sympathetic toward people crying over the price of gas. Those are usually the same people that have bought houses on the farms that I used to hunt on.

[DogYeller]

You guys act like Oil and Gasoline belongs to you. You haven’t done any thing to find an oil producing area or lease the right to drill or invest your money in a venture that might produce oil. You don’t build oil storage facilities or provide infrastructure to support oil production. You don’t produce, you don’t refine, you don’t transport you probably don’t even invest. You don’t even understand how that gasoline in your tank got there. But let the price of gasoline go up 10 cents and it’s the fault of the people who do. It’s been a long time since the major oil producers had any thing to do with the pricing of a Bbl of oil.

[skeeter@ccia.com]

Hey dog if the big companies have nothing to do with fixing the prices then explain this to me. Back in the late 70's when my brothers private owned station could not buy any gas, he was forced to close his doors. ...Due to lack of gasoline for sale to private owners..the little guy. Boron at that time bought his station from him and used his tanks to store their gasoline..yes filled them all up with excess gasoline. ... All this while we were sitting in a line because of a gasoline shortage????????..They closed every little guy around here. Now the last private owned station just closed this fall. It had came up for sale and the person that was leasing it at the time could not buy it. He wanted to but they demanded a Million dollar tank change. (just did that when he took over about 5 yrs ago) also demanded he post a million dollar fee of some sort to cover any future problems he might have and all this on top of the asking price of property. A large company now owns the property. The little guy moved out....is still closed.

[skeet]

Telling the companies what they can charge is like communism. There is a little fly in the ointment though. The price of gasoline or whatever is set by the marketplace. They will continue to raise the price because the marketplace needs the gasoline. Remember the gasoline price wars. That was ehn the companies were in competition with each other. Now they seem to have the prices somewhat fixed with each other. Hate to even make the suggestion that we put a cap on the profit that a private company can make but that is what it seems may be necessary. personally I feel the big oil companies are in collusion with each other rather than competition. I also remember the 70's with the gas rationing etc. There wer oil tankers sitting in the Chesapeake bay loaded with oil. Pretty easy to tell if you've ever been on the water. They sat there for weeks with their loads of oil because there was not enough storage capacity on shore. Oil shortage??? I know better..Price gouging?? False shortage?? Yep. But in and of themselves..not illegal. Immoral I am sure...but not illegal. And as far as any party in the presidency I can guarantee ya that the big oil companies are not going to be bothered in the least.

Now quoting Fabs post. "I had a client move over an hour away from work because he could get a house for 1/4 to 1/5 of what the same house cost by his work. At first, everything was fine. Then, he started complaining that the hour drive was getting longer and longer because the traffic was getting worse. Everybody had the same idea he had. So instead of spending 2 hours on the road, he was spending 4+ a day on the road. Because he was always late, he was always speeding. He got a ton of tickets, lost his license, got busted twice for driving with a suspended license, was sentenced to a month in jail, and lost his job."

Well Fabs it was no ones fault but his own. He had to have known he had to go to work. All he had to do was leave a little earlier. He could have gotten to his job in a fair amount of time and without the tickets. He like a lot of others just wanted his cake and to be able to eat it too. I lived an hour...no let me rephrase that..60 miles from work. Drove it for 29 yrs and got no tickets and was always on time for work...even driving in snow fog and hurricanes. Soem of the people that lived 10 minutes from work were quite often late. Matter of responsibility my friend!

[fabsroman]

Skeet,

I don't disagree that it is a matter of responsibility. I'm just trying to show how these people want their cake and they want to eat it too. They want to live in a nice big home on a couple of acres, but they want it cheap, they want to drive a big SUV, but they want the gas for it to be cheap. They want to live an hour away from work and they don't want any traffic. Then, after they make their decisions and market circumstances change, they complain. Of course, I didn't hear him complainting when he miore than doubled his money when he sold his house in western Maryland and moved to Arizona.

As far as the oil companies are concerned, if they aren't price fixing, I say leave them alone. If they are price fixing, I say nail them to the wall. By the way, collusion in the market place by price fixing is illegal.

[skeet]

I know collusion with price fixing is illegal.. I just mean there is no way to prove such a thing. If it were done there would be nothing on paper or on tape so it would go like this. Another attorney to Fabs. "Hey bud..lets fix the price of a no fault divorce at 500 bucks" Fabs says ok..ad nauseum to all the other attorneys ergo..the price is 500 bucks and nothing on paper to prove it. Is there anything to say they did it? Of course not. Oh one guy might get pissed off and say it happened..but there is nothing but heresay to "prove" it. And you and I both know that heresay ain't admissible.

Now as far as BIG OIL you and I both know what happened to Standard Oil many years ago. Now there are companies buying other companies and the government doesn't stop it. The oil companies are making beaucoup amounts of francs bucks Euros pesos etc. Record amounts. If they are making record amounts it isn't because of our fuel appetites alone. They are making much larger percentages of profits and now that the independant stations are mostly gone they can pretty much set their own prices. Not saying that the people themselves can't do something to make prices drop(just quit buying) but you know it ain't gonna happen in the ME generation. People are too into what they can get..have ...keep... before the other guy rather than the qualitiy of their lives. And it seems at the same time I keep seeing people that are perpetually unhappy ...and blaming how they feel on someone else. Always saying..it ain't MY fault....Yeah, sure...it ain't their fault!

[fabsroman]

What most people don't understand is what hearsay actually is. Hearsay is getting up on the stand and saying "Johnny told me, that Jim told him that there was price fixing going on." Hearsay is not "I made an agreement with Jim to fix prices."

So, if somebody were to come forward to testify regarding price fixing, it would be admissible if he were privy to the negotiations. Then, it would come down to the he said, she said part of the matter. Kind of like Clemens and his trainer about all this steroid/HGH BS. Like Congress has nothing better to do than to hold hearings on this BS. At least they passed the economic stimulus plan before they had this hearing.

As far as people buying gas is concerned, I know that a lot of people think about it. They have to. When they cannot afford their house payment, they have to start squeezing things, and it might eventually mean that they get rid of the SUV for a more economical vehicle. Time will tell how everything plays out with my generation.

[Valigator]

I can tell you Huckabee is my family name....and he is family...think my vote has been cast...