Swinging the gun on waterfowl

[kt]

I am looking for insight as too the best way get a bead on birds when you hunt a variety of species. I spend the majority of my season hunting honkers that are locked at 10 yds or mallards with their feet down at 20. In such situations i can usually just get a bead on where i want the steel to go. The problem lies in when i attempt to change it up and hunt big water or a river. The first dozen or so divers to come by are safe by the time i establish the right lead. Crows flying with the wind got me this weekend. Do i need to go back to the "swing through the bird" way? I am so used to established leads on slower birds.
kt

[fabsroman]

I read an article in sporting clays magazine that talked about the different types of swings/leads a shooter can use. Believe it or not, there are about 12 of them.

What is really funny is that I use the swing through method on most of the close, slow moving birds, and I pull the trigger as soon as the gun covers them because I know it will be in front of them by the time the gun goes off. On some of the longer shots way out there, I use a swing through method and switch to a sustained lead for a split second before I pull the trigger. On the fast movers, I just get right out in front and start firing. With a fast moving target it is really tough to use a swing through method because by the time you get the gun caught up to them they are gone. If I can find the article any time soon, I will post it on here for you KT. Shoot a lot of sporting clays during the offseason and try the different methods.

[skeet]

KT the problem you have is common. The thing that happens here is the difference in the angles and speed. Not the distance. The average person uses the swing through method of shooting. The big problem in this though is the fact that you aren't looking where you should be. This is the most common problem in all shotgun shooting. You should only (always) be looking at the target(bird). When you try to swing through the bird you have a tendency to look at the front sight of the gun(only way to tell if you are in front of the bird ya know?). The best thing to do when shooting the big rivers etc is to pay attention to the part of the bird you want to hit and forget the lead thing. If the gun is on your shoulder where it should be the little ballistic computer between your ears will tell you when to shoot. TRUST that little thing 'tween your ears. You can't hit many looking at the gun. Oh and when you are looking at the part of the bird you want to hit....always pick the beak. Think of this...shooting geese...a gooses head is about the size of a dove. Ever shoot doves?? Geese and ducks fly just as fast as doves y'all. seriously! Ya don't hit doves looking at their breast...geese or ducks either! BTW you also have to make sure that the gun fits fairly well. Winter and more clothes makes summer's gun too long. Lots of other things I could tell ya but not enough time now

[DelDuck]

KT I could not tell you how I shoot, and what method I use. I have never been able to remeber what I see when I am shooting. All I know is, my gun goes bang and the bird falls down.


most of the time
I have a buddy I shoot with that can tell you every detail about his shot and yours. It amazes me how he does that. I guess I get so focused on what I am doing that everything else is blacked out. when I have tried to pay attention to my shot, that is when I miss really really bad.

[TreeDoc]

You have to SWING?





Ohhhh....I think I get it now.

[fabsroman]

Yeah, it is kind of like the article I was reading. This guy was shooting a pretty big clays tournament and after he won he was interviewed. The interviewer noted that he used 7 to 8 of the 12 different techniques in winning the tournament and the shooter responded with, "I did?" He had no clue that he was using any of the techniques. The only thing he knew was how to break the clays.

Personally, it is when I am not concentrating that I usually miss, and I usually miss the really easy ones because I blow the off as easy.

Skeet has it right. It is all about angles. A quartering bird, going the same speed as a crossing bird, needs less lead. The more a bird takes an angle going away from you, the less lead it needs. The first time I was in a blind shooting over big water, everybody was astounded at my shooting. It wasn't so much that I was knocking them down right in front of the blind at first, but I was killing them right as they were leaving (i.e., when the angle was decreased). My first shot at a crossing bird was about 3 feet behind it. I could tell because I was shooting down at the water from this blind that is several feet above the water. After that, I made sure I got way in front of the bird and I started knocking them down.

All I can say is practice, practice, practice. Distance and speed of the target do play a role, but it is more about practice. About 4 years ago, I was on the clays course and shooting with a couple of guys that are pretty good. We all shot in the 40's, but I was at the lower end. At the end, they told me that I am breaking the back portion off of the bird and that I need to get a little bit more in front. I shot a couple more rounds that summer and increased my lead a little. I was breaking birds really well that way. Transferred the concept to dove hunting and I was knocking them dead. A couple of years ago I bought two new 391's. One in 20 ga. and the other in 12 ga. My dad wanted to use the 20 ga. the first day of dove season so I let him. He didn't take any long shots because he didn't think the gun could make them. Next time we went hunting I used the 20 ga. because I had a new dog with me. He was surprised when I hit a crossing bird about 50 yards away that was packing the mail. I tried to keep telling him that the gun was able to shoot that far, but he just couldn't believe it. He still suffers from the same problem I suffered from. He is usually behind the bird and he still gets a lot of wounded birds and has feathers falling with birds flying away.

Practice, practice, practice.

By the way, if you are ever in the Maryland Eastern Shore area, you should see if you can drop by and take some lessons from Skeet. I hear he is a pretty good teacher. I don't have the patience.

[skeet]

One technique you can do to help your shooting/ Take a shotgun..check the chamber of course. Stand in a room as if you are getting ready to shoot a bird and pick a light switch on the wall. Bring the gun to your shoulder smartly as if you are going to shoot . Don't try to point the gun at the switch..just let it happen. See where you are pointing..dismount and do it again...50 times a day 3 days a week. After a while the gun will come up smoothly and it'll be pointing right at that ol switch. Doing this will make sure the gun goes to the same place most every time and you'll know it's either right or wrong. Your eye is the rear sight on a shotgun after all and it needs to be in the same place every time. BUT as I said...don't look at the gun as you bring it up....look at the switch. If you don't you'll find yourself bringing the gun up and then swinging it to the point of aim. Point of aim is all you look at. Eventually the gun will go right to that point. I was taught by one of my combat instructors lo these many years to use the same technique for combat situations with a handgun. I can still hit a 12x12(minute of crook) target with one of my 45's 6 out of 7 using that technique...quickly at 15 yds...most of the time and I'm a terrible handgun shooter
BTW did ya ever notice that you make great shots on the birds you don't have time to think about...That little thing 'tween your ears just does it all for ya.

[kt]

great advice guys, what a nice website this is. now i just need the rain and snow to stop so i can get out.
thanks again
kt

[Jack]

That is good advice.
As soon as I start thinking about technique and lead and all that stuff, I start missing.
I fi quit thinking and just look at the bird, I do better.

[tjwatty]

All great advice, it is amazing how much an old dog can learn by being open minded.
Now my take.(probably wrong)
I hunt ducks on the Mississippi, usually a long way from shore. It has been my observation, that without anything but sky as a background, it is very hard for my little pea sized brain to decide how big and or fast a particular duck is moving. What I mean is, a mallard is not as fast as a teal but without a referance all my brain sees is a duck. I miss a lot because I over lead or under lead passing ducks without a background. I try to use the butt, head, beak method but it doesn't always work. I just do what I tell the guys at the range I do. DON'T THINK JUST SHOOT!! Seems that when I just relax and let my instincts do it I usually come out better.

[fabsroman]

Usually, when we are thinking about a shot, we are second guessing our first instinct.

Have any of you ever flinched on a target? I flinched once in my life on a trap target during a tournament. I went to pull the trigger, stopped for some unknown reason, and then tried to get back on the target. That was a shear disaster.

When I talk about concentrating/focus, that means on the target, not about thinking about when you need to pull the trigger. When there are a lot of targets in the air, concentration and focus are greatly needed.

[skeet]

TJ...Just to let ya know...Teal don't really fly faster than mallards...it just looks like it. Faster wing beat...smaller duck...and the great sound, like a jet, through their pinion feathers. Teal just fly low and don't give ya much chance to see 'em coming. They fly bout as fast as a mallard and a goose. Your eye deceives you...mine too!! Look at the head and just shoot. You'll hit most of them. Same thing with the distance to a duck and the lead required. If he's in range the computer 'tween your ears will do the job...just let it do it You've just got to have....Faith!!. Listen to the preacher