got to say something

[TSadler]

A while back - several months - I posted that my boy Tex was growling and snapping with a rawhide. Many of you posted what you thought was the best advice and I appreciate your advice and concern.

But, ignoring it or beating him was entirely the wrong thing to do. Both made the situation worse. He developed extreme protectionism with his food and water, ranging from not eating or drinking to growling and snapping. In fact, he wouldn't even drink water with someone standing beside him.

At wits end, I contacted a friend of mine who became a dog behavior specialist. She has a booming practice in Austin. I know what you are thinking - a dog psychologist?? I never thought I'd use one, but my husband was ready to shoot Tex. My thoughts were - we spent lots of time and money training him to become one of the best retrievers in the area. We should at least spend the same amount of time correcting this problem.

My friend recommended feeding Tex by hand for a while. You see, he didn't get aggressive when fed this way. After 4 weeks, he stilled growled when fed from a bowl - any bowl. My friend recommended a book called, "Mine, A practical guide to resource aggression." This book makes a lot of sense. The writer is not some whacked out animal rights person. As I read this book, I think of all the things we've done wrong in the last 6 to 8 months and of all the possible things that happened at the trainer's before that. All of the mistakes added up and Tex began to feel as if food and water should be consumed as quickly as possible to avoid it getting taken or to avoid getting beaten.

Tex is starting to turn around in his aggression. He will now drink with anyone standing beside him, but if touched, he will back off and cower down. We are working on it and every day he gets a tiny bit better. He will now also eat treats with me without growling and after much coaxing. He has a long way to go, but with patience, I'm sure he will succeed. Even my husband is starting to see the changes.

I only wanted to tell this story to open up some minds. Sometimes beating may be the right thing; sometimes ignoring it may be the right thing; sometimes they are both wrong. Like I said at the beginning, I appreciate everyone's advice here and I'm not upset about it. I feel like most of you are friends and I'm only giving an update on a problem that I asked about some time ago.

[fabsroman]

Traci,

That is wonderful news. I was a little startled to hear that your husband was about to shoot the dog. Don't know what to think about that. I also think every dog is different, just as every person is different.

I was only spanked once as a child because when it happened I never flinched. However, I was hurt emotionally because I felt as though I had let my dad down. Anyway, after that, my parents resorted to punishing me by sending me to bed early. Of course, that rarely ever happened because I was a pretty good boy.

On the other hand, my brother was a disaster, he was spanked, sent to his room, had his skate boarding, biking, and driving privileges taken away on several occassions, and nothing seemed to work.

For some reason that I do not know, my father spanked Nitro one day while he was eating out of his bowl at my parent's house. Nitro wouldn't eat in front of me for quite some time after that. Then, when he did eat in front of me he would crouch down if I tried to pet him. Now, he eats in front of me and he is just fine with me petting him. However, I have never had him growl at me if I took his food away.

Some things will work on some dogs and other things won't. I am glad that you found some way to help Tex get to an acceptable state.

PS - Happy belated Birthday.

[gspsonny03]

Traci,
I'm not sure what advice I gave you back then, but I'm sure glad things are working out, with out having to put your buddy down. If I may, could you supply the name of the Author who wrote the book? I might be interested in adding it to my books. Sometimes after a long day of hunting my Sonny will do that with the other dog, so I might learn something here. Thanks

[TSadler]

Thanks, yall.

gsp - it's by Jean Donaldson. It is on Dogwise.com for $13. I saw it on Amazon for - get this - $49. It is a small book - only 100 pages. She has a lot of other books, too.

She opened up with our expectations of dogs are way higher than that of any other type of animal or human. The way she explained it was a smack in the face. But, she said our expectations were attainable.

I think she smacked me every couple of pages after that.

One part she talks about aggressive dogs and muzzling them and how to do it without getting bit then make them want to be muzzled! Her advice to use a kevlar glove made me glad Tex wasn't that bad. She writes as if the reader is a dog trainer, too.

[gspsonny03]

Thanks Traci.

[Nulle]

I don't remember what I put down either but I bet it was "get rid of it" .
With that said and your last posts I WILL get this book and read it and see how it works with some of our nice but growly dogs we get at the Shelter.

[icequeen]

Glad to hear things are changing for the better Traci.

Can't say I've ever had that problem with any of my dogs, I think because I start when they are very young playing with/handling thier food while they are eating. I just count my lucky stars that it's been that way up til now, but ya never know what the future will hold.

[TSadler]

Originally posted by icequeen
I start when they are very young playing with/handling thier food while they are eating.

We did too, and didn't have a problem until he returned from the trainers for the last time. But, then we made some mistakes to really bring the problem to light.

Last night, he continued to drink his water while I petted him. It seems like he's lept forward on this in the last couple of days.

[icequeen]

That's good to hear.

I'd be thinkin twice before sendin a dog to that trainer, somethin just isn't right there. But we all know what they say bout hindsight.

[Lilred]

I'm glad yer dog is doin better TSadler, but fer some "concerned citizens" I would like to make a couple of points in this regard.
The original thread was a mess and I will not (and hopefully ya'll wont) reopen that there big ole can of worms. However, I dont want folks thinkin that we told you to beat and ignore your dog.
I never voiced my opinion in that thread, I was too busy puttin out fires.
Futhermore, in yer first post in that thread, you said you were smackin him with a collar, so that dog was not new to any sort of "whippins".
Your dog has some serious issues, most of them, IMHO, revolves around trust. You and your dog was apart for a long time when you sent him off to be trained. And it seems that when he is with you, that training is your number 1 priority. Which is fine, but the trust and bond with you is what your dog has been missing all along. Along with what this woman has shown you on fixing this problem, I think you should concentrate soley on bein that dog's best friend for a while, and let the dog shows wait.
Trust me when I tell you, there is a big difference tween a dog that peforms FOR you, than a dog that performs cause he HAS to.
Now matter how you attempt to fix it, no matter what reasons you may think a dog would have for such things..that is, in a nutshell, a trust issue. Simply put. And if you continue down the road of fixin his quirks, and not fixin the trust issue, you will eventually work out all the kinks..but you will have a robot and not a best friend.

I swear, you ought to see the faces of folks who see 6 beagles jump out of a dog box with no shock collars on, and they run like fools..people ask me all the time.."How do you do that? Man I gotta git a puppy from you!"...Nope, it aint my dogs blood. Those dogs hunt out of sheer enjoyment of it. They were trained, yes, but I love those dogs plum to death. They do it fer me. Sure, they make mistakes along the way, but I dont care.

My only suggestion to you, is to let go of the training & shows for a while, and git back to basics. Cause I think that's what's been missin all along. I am sincerely glad that Tex is doin better tho, and I wish him and you the best.

[fabsroman]

Lilred,

I will have to agree with you that trust is a big issue in dogs. If the dog trusts you, it will usually do what you want it to. I slept with Nitro on the couch for the first several weeks that I had him and I usually left him on my chest. He was small enough back then to do it. Now, I would suffocate.

Usually, when I correct Nitro, he understands why he is being corrected and I usually give him a couple of chances to respond to the command which I know he knows.

I have never had a dog that was gun shy and I have trained 3 so far. I didn't even have to get them used to the gun. My dogs have also always followed me around the house, even when other people are in the house. I guess that would make me the alpha/leader of the pack.

As I am typing this, Nitro is laying on his dog bed right next to my desk. He also sleeps on my side of the bed and he lays down on my side of the couch. Now, when we are eating that is a completely different story because he will sit by whoever's plate still has food in it.

[Nulle]

As I have mentioned before that I am out of the old school when it comes to shock collars. Red has hit the nail on the head when she explained that the dog should perform FOR you not because he HAS to.
Don't get me wrong I have two collars but they are used very little and in training only. When we are in the field the collars are off.
Kind of off the subject but the advise was worth a second shot.

[losthwy]

Originally posted by TSadler


But, ignoring it or beating him was entirely the wrong thing to do.

Amen to that! God I hope no one here told you to beat your dog. Disciplined yes, beating hell no.
I'm glad progress is being made, all of us dog owners know how distressful this has been for you and how much we would hate to give up one of our own "kids".

[icequeen]

Originally posted by losthwy
God I hope no one here told you to beat your dog. Disciplined yes, beating hell no.

Nobody told anybody to beat the dog. Discipline maybe, a smack on the butt maybe.

After rereading T's original thread on this subject, and rereading T's first post here, something happened between that thread from almost a year ago and deciding to consult a behavioral specialist, considering the situation (according to the first post here) escalated. Dogs don't normally become more and more aggressive without reason. But, gladly, the situation is improving.

Suffice to say that lessons have been learned. As long as something was learned it's not a mistake, and those lessons can be applied to other situations in the future.

Hopefully (keepin my fingers crossed) Tex will continue to improve, it does seem promising.

[Nulle]

Some dogs do and will become more aggressive and I have seen it over and over but your intervention in this particular dog seems to be working. I must caution that this is not the norm. so be very careful and I do wish you luck.
I am trying to locate that book you spoke about as I would like to study it also.