Gas or diesel?

[Tater]

What are the pros and cons with gas and diesel engines? I'll be in the market for a truck in a couple years and I'm starting a little research now. I'm looking for info on mileage, maintenance, etc. I'll more than likely be getting a 3/4 ton and it will a daily driver as well as a toy hauler. No heavy pulling right away but I'll probably get a slide-in camper or a larger camper trailer in the future. Thanks ahead.

[fabsroman]

The difference in mileage is huge, especially if it is going to be a daily driver. I get 16 mpg out of my F-350 Crew Cab and the gas motors get about 12 mpg. That is about 33% better than the gas motor. However, not every gas station around here sells diesel (i.e., one drawback). Another drawback is that the diesel motor takes 15 qts of oil and I use Mobil 1 in all my vehicles. Another drawback is that it takes 3+ gallons of antifreeze. However, I've only changed the oil once and haven't had to change the antifreeze yet because it is barely 2 years old and I rarely drive it (i.e., I bought it in Nov 2003 and it has 6,000 miles on it).

The diesel is also a little more noisy than a gas motor, but I can barely hear the motor at highway speeds. Plus, I kind of like the diesel sound because it reminds me of fishing. Then again, if you are one of these guys that wants a loud "sport" muffler on your truck, then it is about the same thing.

I think the durability of the diesel and the power of the diesel motors far exceeds that of the gasoline motors. My dad has around 80,000 miles on his F-150 5.0 liter gas powered truck, and that motor struggles just going up hills. There are othe reasons for that (i.e., abuse), so I don't know exactly how long a gas motor will last in a truck, and continue to make enough power, if properly taken care of.

When I need to buy another truck in about 30 years, if the technology remains the same, I will buy another diesel.

Oh yeah, diesel is better for the environment too because it does not effect the ozone.

Heck, I have been thinking about buying a diesel car if they start making them, but we are actually leaning toward a hybrid SUV. Ford is coming out with a Hybrid/Flex Fuel Escape and I am hoping that they will have that technology for the Explorer and Expedition by the time we are in the market for a new vehicle.

[L. Cooper]

Unless you will tow with the truck a large percentage of the time (like 40% or more, not just occasionally) there is no way a diesel makes economic sense, and it is less convenient as a daily driver. It also makes no sense unless you intend to keep it for many years.

[wrenchman]

many of todays diesil moters are true diesil moters that were origenily intended for heavyer duty work and and many more miles then most will put on a personel truck.
dodge is youseing the cat wich should run for about 250 thousend miles before you have any problims.
ford youses the power stroke it is yoused by international in there streight trucks.
most of these heavyer trucks get about 9 miles per gallon of fuel
when i run trip reports wich is a print out directly frome the e.c.u .
and many idel a lot.
The most you will have to do with a diesel is change the oil lots of the newer diesel vehicels are comeing with extended life coolent
and it will last a long time you should also be doing less oil changes becouse you shouldnt need to change your oil for 9 tousend miles just make sure you keep everthing else greased.
we run our streight rucks that have cats the same model that is in the dodge rams 4 months or 20 thousend miles we dont hit milage to often unless it is a slip seat.
so if you will be youseing it hard and doing lots of miles it will be real good
you will need to change fuel filters about the same as any other.

[Mike Moss]

I can't stand diesels. They smell, the fuel smells and the cost a lot to buy and more to fix.

Around here the price spread between 87 octane and diesel fuel has been around 60 cents a gallon in favor of the gas engine.

Nothing worse than trying to talk and some guy pulls up in a diesel and you can't hear. They leave them running too when they go in the store to show off.

I sell product to commercial customers who use diesels and most of the diesel drivers don't drive diesels home as they are sick of them.

[TreeDoc]

wrenchman, do you mean "Cummins" in the Dodge? Never heard of a Cat diesel in a Dodge truck, maybe I'm missing something.

I think the diesel was a great choice before gas and diesel prices went haywire. Used to be that diesel was substantially less than gasoline but those days are over. I've been doing a lot of traveling during the duck season. 400 miles one way to my duck club and I'm on Interstate 5 running through the center of California, Oregon, and Washington and it's trucker haven and home what is usually cheaper fuel compared to where I live. Diesel is now WAY above Gasoline costs consistantly throughout the state.

When I considered buying an F250 a year ago, the diesel was going to cost me an additional $7000 just because it was a diesel. That used to even out when it was cheaper fuel but not anymore. Mileage is definitely better however. I have numerous friends with F250 6.0L Powerstrokes and they love them when it comes to tow power and economy. My buddy gets about 17 mpg when towing a 32' 5th wheel!

Like already said, you'll be able to stretch the life of a diesel for a long time, I think this is one of those things that if you sat down and considered your driving habits, you could do the math to see if it works out and is worth the extra fuel cost and initial cost of investment.

[Tater]

Thanks guys. Keep it coming. It's going to be about 3 years before I can seriously consider a new truck so I got plenty of time.

[wrenchman]

yes fabs cat a couple of the guys at my shop have got them but frome what i understand you can still get the cummins the cummins is nice to the guy on mid nites has a nice duely with a cummins.
frome what i been told you can even get a mercedes diesel in them now.
I dont know why dodge dont youse detroit as a standerd they own detroit.
mike lots of the newer moters are much quiter and burn real clean e.p.a clamped down.
I was talking with the rep frome detroit that said in the next 10 years it will be agains the law to idel diesels all nite i have already worked on espar heaters they conserv fuel and low emision.
many citys and towns already have ordinecs agains it.
I like the diesel becouse it will run as long as you own it if you never wanted to buy another truck it will still run it might be ugly but it will run.

[Redbeard]

Watch for diesel fuel prices to continue to go up. The EPA has mandated reduced sulfur diesel fuels starting in the fall of 2006 for on highway vehicles. This will cause the refining process to be more involved and you can guess what that will do to the price. With the premium price on buying a diesel powered vehicle plus added fuel costs how much sense does it make to go the diesel route? I would say that it could make sense if you are going to tow heavy loads often and plan to keep the vehicle more than a few years, to cash in on diesels longevity potential. My 2 cents worth.

[fabsroman]

We are making a lot of assumptions here about gas prices without knowing anything for sure. This is almost like what I tell my clients about tax planning. Doing any type of long term planning (i.e., 10+ years) based upon taxes is just foolish. Buying a truck based upon current gas prices is also foolish. For all we know, gasoline will be as expensive in the US as it is in Europe in the near future (i.e., $5 a gallon). Look at what happened just a little while ago. If I am not mistaken, gas was close to $4 a gallon here. There are a million what ifs. When I bought my truck 2 1/2 years ago, diesel was cheaper than gasoline. Plus, the federal income tax rules at that time let me save $19,000 on federal taxes by buying the truck. You can bet that I can buy plenty of diesel with that money. Even if the motor was an additional $6,000, it was actually only an additional $4,000 because of its deductibility.

Trying to figure out what the world's fuel situation will be like in the next 10 years is rather futile. 10 years ago, if you told me that I would be on a chat board every day reading and writing about hunting over the internet, I would have told you that you were crazy because I had no idea at that time what a chat board was and I didn't even have internet access. Barely even had an e-mail address through school.

In 3 years from now, they might be offering a hybrid or FFV in the heavy duty truck arena, or maybe an alternative fuel. Who knows. Chevy offers its 1500 in a hybrid right now.

[TreeDoc]

I think there's one thing that can be said for certain.....

Gas and Diesel will only be going UP!

[Tater]

Fuel prices will definitely play into my decision when the time comes but that's in the future. I'm mostly looking for info on the pros and cons between gas and diesel that we know about know like oil changes (how far between, how much oil), tune ups, etc. Thanks again for the info.

[fabsroman]

TD,

I agree completely with your statement. That is why our next car will be a hybrid. Not only is it good for the environment, but I think I will end up saving some money in the long run with rising gas prices. Plus, the government might still be offering tax credits at that time for the purchase of hybrids.

[Skyline]

My wife and I have owned 5 diesel trucks so far. We put an average of 300,000 miles on each one. We bought them because we were hauling a 24 foot gooseneck filled with 6 or 7 head of horses all the time. That would have killed a gas engine truck in a short period of time and the fuel cost would have been significantly higher.

We are now down to short hops most of the time with a smaller trailer and have switched back to a gas engine. You will only recover the extra costs of driving the diesel if you drive a lot of miles and tow a lot.

One other thing as far as cost............by the time we sell the diesels they are trashed. The engines are still doing alright but the rest of the truck is junk. They do not build the trucks to last as long as the engines. With ours, all 4x4's, we had totally rebuilt the front end in them several times, the rear ends, and for sure one clutch job.

If you are in cold country, diesels can be a pain as well. Many is the time I have seen cold snaps in October gell the fuel in trucks when we are up in hunting camp. Winter grade diesel is still not available at the pump that early in the fall. So, to error on the side of caution you need to make sure you treat your fuel if you are going anywhere early in the fall that could get a spell of bad weather.

If your fuel gells out in the middle of nowhere and you do not have Meltdown or some other product to degell, and you don't have a generator to plug a block heater in for a while.......you won't be going anywhere except on foot.

[MarkL]

Did you know you can run a diesel on used vegetable oil (a.k.a. waste vegetable oil)? I stumbled across the topic the other day and found several web sites and forums about it. I thought it was pretty interesting.

You first have to make some modifications to your fuel system. The main thing is you use hot water from the coolant system to heat the wvo (waste veggie oil) before it enters the injector pump to lower the viscosity to an acceptable level.

Then you get free wvo from restaurants who normally have to pay someone to dispose of it. You also have to filter out all the food particles before putting in your tank. Your exhaust will smell like french fries or whatever was cooked in the oil.

If you want your diesel engine to remind you of fishing, get your oil from a seafood resaurant.