.17 Mach 2

[TreeDoc]

The wife and I traveled to northern California to attend the California Waterfowl Assoc's Wood Duck Program Banquet this Easter weekend. We ended up winning what I thought at first to be a .17 HMR but as I look up the model, I see its a .17 Mach 2, specifically a Marlin 917 M2 HB SS, a stainless steel heavy barrel with a grey laminated stock. I didn't get a chance to even touch the gun as they pushed us through the line and took it away for safe keeping.

I know absolutely NOTHING about this Mach 2 round other than I remember it was like a necked down .22 LR. What's the skinny on performance with this round? I have a beautiful Win 1885 Low Wall in 17 HMR and the round is a blast, will I like this smaller round ya think? What sucks is we have a 10 day waiting period and the Shmuck running the gun sales for the local dealer at the dinner wasn't starting the paperwork necessary that night. He tells us that we have to go into the store to get it started, then come back after 10 days to pick it up. I live 265 miles one way away from the store. I could buy 2 or 3 of these stupid things for what it would cost me to drive up and go through this pricks hoops. I'm gonna call him tomorrow and get them to ship it to my local FFL unless I get marginal reviews on it. If that's the case, I'll sell it to one of the guys up there in the area.

[Rocky Raab]

Have never laid eyes on that model, but I think you'll enjoy the cartridge. It should make a perfect walking ground squirrel gun with low report, flat trajectory and high accuracy. The Mach 2 does for the .22LR what the .17HMR does for the .22Mag, or so I hear.

I agree on the hassle. Ship it to your local guy.

[Cossack]

Light on recoil, somewhat faster than 22 (1750 fps) but tiny bullet is affected by wind and lacks kenetic energy (KE) much beyond 50 yrds. Made to sell ammo (rimfire), just not getting much acceptance because of ammo cost and poor KE.
No comparison to 17 HMR. And while flatter, less terminal performance than a hyper 22 at 1450 fps and a bullet twise the weight of Mach2.
But, look at the cartridge, sure has got cute going for it!

[Andy L]

Do you have one kossac?

If there has been a better squirrel or rabbit rifle made, I dont know about it. Im not getting into the details, but in short, out to 100 yrds MINE shoots circles around any 22lr I have shot on a regular basis. Its fun to knock squirrels out of trees at 100 yrds and not worry about meat damage if you make a body shot. Mines sighted 1/2 in high at 50 yards and dead at 100. Basically, from the muzzle to 100, just put the crosshairs on it and shoot.

As far as KE, its not made for large game or penetration. And as far as lacking, I know I just live in a rural area in the midwest, but the local gun shop says hes selling the little 17s, mach ii and hmr, hand over fist over 22lr now.

Im guessin you dont have one or havent tried it enough. I wouldnt trade it for an HMR on a bet. And no, I dont own an HMR but I have shot one quite a bit.

BTW, they are hell on bullfrogs. Stops alot of that jumpin in the water after a head shot. They have no head.

[Dom]

Hey Treedoc, I would probably have him ship it to a nearby FFL, heck, you got nothin' to lose. Didn't know you had a 10 day wait on a long gun, reminds me to stay away from the Republik!

I have neither, yet, but, if I was buying one or the other, it'd definitely be the HMR over the M2, Waidmannsheil, Dom.

[Andy L]

Dom,
Everyone has their preferences. But heres the reason I like the Mach II better. Neither is worth spit for anything bigger than a prairie dog, and Ive had one splash on a pd shoulder at 50 yrds out of a hmr, thats no joke. The fella that owns the hmr that I have shot bought it for coons. Its not worth spit for them either. They splash on the head or shoulder and tear the hell out of the hide anywhere else. Junk. They are small rodent and rabbit and squirrel guns. Period. Oh, and a blast to plink with.

The HMR gives you a little more range, but if you want to meat hunt at all for the above mentioned animals, it will blow them up pretty bad. The Mach II doesnt. If you hit a rabbit shoulder, you lose one shoulder, not two and the back, like you do with the hmr. Ive shot, and my son even more, rabbits in the ribcage, and squirrels, and had no exit almost every time. No meat ruined.
(That is if head shots arent available.) Its liken to shooting a coyote in the ribs with a 17Rem. Goes in and blows up like a bomb.

So, given that they are both good for the same type animals, I like the Mach II better. But thats just my opinion.

I just get a kick out of folks who look at stuff on paper and dont have a clue what their talking about.

[Andy L]

One other thing about the HMR, and the Mach II for that matter, they are not in any way, shape or form, big enough or have the right construction bullets for foxes, bobcats or coyotes. Anyone who points one at one is irresponsible.

The biggest thing I have seen shot with the HMR is a housecat, a big one, given. It was at about 200 yards. It took 3 shots to kill poor sylvester. Thats pretty sad to think that some people think something that pathetic is a good predator gun. It also happened to be the same day I shot the prairie dog I mentioned above. We had just gotten back to the truck and one poked head up at 50 yrds. I grabbed it and shot. I was trying to head shoot it, but shot low and struck the shoulder. It tipped over and started spinning circles. We walked over there and it had a shoulder torn up some, but no deep penetration. I used a boot heel to finish the job.

We shot alot more pds with that HMR and very few were DRT. Most limped back in their holes. Im sure they died, but that was a good enough real world experience for me to see the limitatiions of the 17cal rimfires.

[Dom]

Yes Andy, but it depends on what you're going to use them for. I wasn't thinking to shoot game or fox with it, just birds and target shooting. I've got plenty of others much more appropriate for meat or game shooting. But you never know, sounds more like a bullet problem than a problem with the speed of it. For that matter, I love my 22 rf magnums so haven't been pushy on going the 17 route.

[Ridge Runner]

in 1992 I had a full house ruger 10/22 target gun built and literaly took hundreds of squirrels with it, couple years ago I got an x-mas bonus and while trying to figure out what I wanted I saw savage had just started making a LH 17 hm2, on impulse I ordered one, along with a weaver v classic 4x16 with 1/4 MOA dot, I shot the rifle for the first time and the first 3 shots measured .223" at 50 yds, I've taken probably a dozen chucks with it (the largest about 14-16# at 148 yds) and about 30 squirrels. here is my general thoughts on the 17 hm2 and what I've saw from others who used the 17 HMR.
in the hmr, the 17 gr v-max is good for nothing edible, or game over about 8 pounds, the bullet is going to fast and just turns to dust on impact, the 20 gr normaly doesn't shoot as well as the v-max, and while it will penetrate fox's and such it doesn't expand enough to reliably kill them.
Now you slow that 17 gr down 300 fps in the hm2 (2200-2250 fps) and it is the best squirrel gun made bar none, my LH custom ruger spends its life in the safe now and the 17 hm2 also does better on groundhogs due to the lower velocity does slow down expansion while enhancing penetration. I've shot through about all the groundhogs I've shot that were under 10 pounds , and doesn't tear up small game much at all. I watched a buddy shooting longtailed blackbirds one day with an HMR and on solid center body shots the 17 v-max usualy didn't exit, on raking shots it tore the bejesus out of them.
This is the rifle that we read at its introduction was suitable for all game up to and including small deer, that was the internet hype that was designed to sell rifles.
Now my opinion on why the hm2 came to be, and this is only my opinion here
Hornady saw what a catastophe the 17 gr v-max was in the HMR but they had allready invested in the tooling line to produce the 17 gr v-max, it was a total failure in the hmr, and was useless for the 17 centerfires (wrong diameter to start with .177 vs .172 for the cf's) so they necked down a 22 stinger case and found a viable use for the 17 gr v-max by slowing it down those 300 fps.
RR

[TreeDoc]

Interesting comments about the Mach II as well as its daddy the HMR.

I took delivery of the rifle a couple weeks after posting this thread. I originally called the dealer to see if there was anything preventing its shipment to my FFL and he said he'd do it for $100. I politely told him to screw himself and that I would be contacting the Cal Waterfowl Assoc to share with them the way their contributors were being treated after dropping nearly a grand! His tune changed and his price went to $50. Still to high but I conceeded. He really drug his feet in taping the box and putting a label on it. 2 weeks worth of "Where's my rifle" from me finally got it to my FFL. It's sitting in the corner of my living room right where i left it after bringing it home. I need to get rings for it and slap a Leupold rimfire on it. If i ever get around to doing this, i'll post my thoughts.

Regarding the pros and cons of either of the .17 cartridges, I'm thinking that .17 HMR might have been designed with us West Coasters in mind. We have these pesky Ground Squirrels out here that would never be suitable for eating. Explosive projectiles is just what the doctor ordered for these things. My 1885 low wall is fantastic on these things out to about 150+ yards if I can hit 'em out that far.

We do have Grey Tree Squirrels which are hunted for food in some areas but I'd never use a 17 HMR for that purpose. Perhaps that's were this Mach II will come in. I never hunt tree squirrels though and likely never will. As for 'Yotes and the like...no way is the HMR enough for that.