What Would You Suggest?

[tooldummy]

A young man I work with is interested in shooting targets at 1000 yards. He might want to take a rifle deer hunting, but I think he is more interested in two liter pop bottles and such.

He asked me what I would suggest. I really didn't have a good answer. I had a .308 heavy barrell a while back, and although it shot pretty good at 200 or so, I don't know if it was capable of a 1000 or not. So I told him I would ask you guys, I figure someone would have a suggestion.

We called a friend of mine that owns a gun shop, and he suggested a Savage Model 12 single shot in .308 with a Leupold VXL3 (?) maybe that went to 20 X magnification, which has him thinking.

[Adam Helmer]

tooldummy,

If your friend shoots at a 1,000-yard club, maybe he could get good recommendations there. If he was in PA, I would send him down to Bodines, PA where the Original 1,000 Yard Club shoots every month. He may be able to get their match results online and see what calibers are winning these days.

Adam

[rickjordan]

Well, our military uses 50 caliber sniper rifles so if money isn't issue- I'd use what our fighting men use!

[BILLY D.]

The 308 Win, 6,5x284 and 300 Win Mag are well qualified for 1K. As one old guy says, "there are lots of 1K yard rifles, but few 1k yard shooters".

Can you read the wind at 200, 600 and 900 yard intervals? It takes practice, lots of practice. Did I mention it takes practice.

Hunting at those ranges requires even more study and PRACTICE. Do you want the rsponsibility of wounding an animal and not being able to recover it? Thats why we see 3 legged deer or deer with a broadhead wound through the extreme lower chest wandering around.

Theres a little bit of Quigley in each of us, but remember "This ain't Dodge City and you ain't Bill Hickcock."

Best wishes, Bill

[Skinny Shooter]

A scope with target knobs is important. The Leupold 6.5-20 VXIII LR series will get him there. http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...520&t=11082005

A 308Win will work with 175gr bullets. The 243Win, 260Rem, 7mm-08 will work with heavy for caliber bullets.
Look at the Savage Model 12 series and he doesn't have to get a single-shot if he doesn't want to.
Remmy makes a VLS in 308Win and 243Win too. If he shoots a 243, he'll need a fast twist (1 in 9.25" minimum) to stabilize the 105gr Amax bullet.
Then there is the 6mmBR for 1K yard target shooting and for varmints. http://www.6mmbr.com/6mmbr.html

After all that, I'll say go with a 308Win first. It's easy to load for, has long barrel life and recoil is manageable.

Depending on his scope, he may need a 20moa scope base to reach 1K with this caliber. http://www.kenfarrell.com/REM-7S-1-20.html

I know nothing about his experience but if he plans on shooting deer at longer ranges, he'll need to practice and know his come-ups till it all becomes second nature.

[Catfish]

Velosity is important, but secondary to the BC of the bullets he is going to use. There are still alot of guys shooting the old 6.5 x 55`s in compitation, and hoolding their own, but not really winning alot of big matches. If he is capible of and wants to go to the expence of a cuwstom wildcat and makeing his own brass the 6.5- 284 shooting very heavy bullets would be an excellant choice. I built a .22-6mm for long range coyotes and shoot 80 gn. bullets at abt. 3,470 fps. which wouldn`t be a bad 1,000 yrd gun eather. How much does he want to spend???? I got close to $ 1,000 in the gun and alittle over that in the scope that`s on it.

[tooldummy]

Thank you all for your replies. He read them all and is pondering his options.

I want to clarrify that although he might take the gun hunting sometime, it wouldn't be for 1,000 yard shots. The long range shots were to be at paper and soda bottles. Hunting shots would be more like 300 yards max. He just wanted something capable of shooting those long range two littre soda bottles.

[petey]

As most know I bought a Rem 700 LSS in a 7 RUM a couple years ago with the intent on rebarelling it for a Long Range gun. Turns out that out of box stock gun was quite a shooter and I didn't need a rebarrel job. Obviously it's not the norm. We have a slough of guns that we use for our long range hunting, all are custom except for this little dream boat. Also, they are all "wildcats" that either require fireforming brass or special dies.

So far I've had 1 shot kills on deer out to 750 and even further with groundhogs! Of course, they are all custom handloads, but the guy could spend $700 on a stock gun and have just what he wants. It's not a gamble either, since all it would require is a new barrel if the stock gun isn't a super-shooter. It's a standard "hunting" rifle that'll easily get me to 1000 yards. I'm still pumping out 1200 ft pounds of energy at 1000 yards with this rig. Oh yeah, have a 300 RUM in a Rem 700 SS and it shoots just as good! That rig with the scope combo gets me to 800 yards and shoots good enough to kill even our small sized deer at those ranges. (both will shoot under a few inches at 500 yards!) Coincidence? Or does Remington just put together a sweet gun? Hardy doubt I lucked into two guns in different models, in different calibers that turned out to be 1000 yard deer killers out of the box.

Tell him to buy a new Remington, break in the barrel, and he's probably going to be suprized at the results. The .284 is a good shooter, but you can't beat a good .30 caliber. (.308,30-06,300 win mag, 300 RUM) Just depends on how much energy you want when it gets there. Obviously a 300 RUM shooting a 180-200 grain bullet is going to travel farther, have less drop and more energy the farther it goes than a .308 shooting a 168 grain bullet.

It's interesting to look at balistics. You'd think a heavier buller would drop faster than a lighter bullet, well not true if the ballistic coefficent of the bullet is higher. I recently switched from a 160 grain to a 180 grain bullet with a .200+ in BC and gained a whopping 80" (that's 6.5 feet!) and 900 ftlbs of energy at 1000 yards with the heavier bullet. Basic rule, is push as heavy as a bullet as you can, as fast as you can and you'll retain more energy down range. My only concern with using a .308 is does it have enough energy at a 1000 yards to kill at deer?...probably yes. I could enter my .308 data into my Exbal to give me the final energy, but it wouldn't be my first choice if he's actually thinking of killing deer at that distance. I'm sure it punches holes in paper just as close or not closer than anything else..but if you only have 100 ftlbs of energy, then you're just poking a hole and have no shock. Don't get me wrong, I love the .308 and it's one of my favorite rounds. I use mine for an all around "carry" hunting gun. I even bring it along while we hunt long range just in case we'd need a follow up shot when retrieving deer. This gun is NOT my choice for long range just b/c it doesn't have the energy at those ranges. I like to pull the trigger and watch them flop at 1000 yards, not watch them take off running I wouldn't think twice about killing a deer at 500 yards with my .308 though.

Tha being said, I've seen a 6.5x284 roll a deer completely over at 800 yards, with only 500 ftlbs of energy. Who was it that said you need 1000 ftlbs to kill a deer?? hogwash....

So if he's hunting at ranges around 300 yards and just wants to plink at 1000 yards, then a .308 is a good choice. Easy to reload, cheap (you're only putting 40 grains of powder vs 90 grains) and have lots of bullet selection. If he doesn't reload, then he better consider it, if he plans on shooting at those distances. Don't think you're going to pick up a stock gun and factory ammo and expect to even hit a house sized target at 1000 yards

I'm done rambling now :P

[bigbrother]

BC means more than the average guy thinks when you're shooting at 700+. Our buddy shoots a 220 swift out to 500 yards. His bullets get there in a hurry although they can get blown around a lot. Past that my 6.5x284 with a bullet that's almost 3 times as heavy shoots flatter, drifts less, and of course hits a lot harder! You really need to do some research into the types of bullets you want to shoot. BC's will vary considerably even in the same bullet weight for caliber. IE, from .545 for the 140AMax vs .595 for the bullet I'm shooting. There are 6.5 bullets with bc's over 6. Of course you need to experiment with what bullet your gun likes best but be forewarned that just because your gun will shoot a bullet into one hole at 100 yds doesn't mean that it will shoot even moa at 700. You really need to shoot alot at different ranges to determine what your equipment but more importantly you are capable of. I still believe that my gun can shoot better than I can shoot it. That being said I've shot 3/4" groups at 300 yds and 2 1/2" groups at 700. Here's one way to think of it: what's the difference if you shoot a 140 grain bullet through a deer at 50yds or at 800yds? If the bullet passes through, expands, and dumps it's energy in the deer; distance doesn't matter. You do have to shoot a bullet that will still expand at the expected impact velocity. That's why you'll see most long range hunters shooting match bullets. The Amax and Bergers work EXTREMELY well. We've seen exit holes of 2" at 700yds with both bullets.

Experiment, develop your drop chart, and start shooting targets until you know that you can hit them. Everyone here has probably read about us shooting deer to 800yds or so. As Petey said, we've knocked them over with my 6.5 that far. BUT, none of us has ever taken a shot that we didn't know we could make. How did we know? We shoot at jugs, steel, and groundhogs all summer from 300 to 1200 yds. We have to drive around an hour to do any of that but when we find a deer feeding at 750, the confidence that you have looking through your scope goes a long way into making that perfect shot.

In reference to the Savage and 308, both work great and would be a great platform to start into this endeavor. Spend more money on optics and later on if you get hooked like I have, build a custom gun just for you. Until then, let me know if I can help.