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#1
06-14-2014, 03:50 AM
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Black vs Subs
So I have a question for all the blackpowder shooters out there. Mainly it's a cartridge question, but it is kinda broad. Do you find that subs like pyrodex are more damaging to a gun than actual black powder is? IE does it rust easier, etc? I know you have to clean after shooting both, but I am curious. Again I put it in reloading because I am mostly looking at it as a cartridge powder, but I know the bp shooters have ALOT more experience with it usually.
Thanks Richard
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(Moderator - Gear & Gadgets, Cowboy Action, SouthWest Regional, Small Game) GoodOlBoy@huntchat.com For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. - John 3:16 KJV Then I commended mirth, because a man hath no better thing under the sun, than to eat, and to drink, and to be merry: for that shall abide with him of his labour the days of his life, which God giveth him under the sun. - Ecclesiastes 8:15 KJV "The gun has been called the great equalizer, meaning that a small person with a gun is equal to a large person, but it is a great equalizer in another way, too. It insures that the people are the equal of their government whenever that government forgets that it is servant and not master of the governed." - 40th President of the United States Ronald Reagan 1911-2004 
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#2
06-14-2014, 05:44 AM
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GOB.. I have only used a few of the new powders.. Pyrodex seems to be less corrosive than black. Triple 7 is defininitely less corrosive I have tried a couple other substitute powdwers and found them to be not as easy to use as the two mentioned..Shockeys was one that comes to mind. What many do not understand is that 777 is actually a type of smokeless powder and in MLs creates a crud ring that is not easy to get out..Pryodex not so much..Velocities are soehwat higher usually with 777. Pyrodex about the same. But here is the real rub. the subs are EXPENSIVE compared to black and other powders that can be used in cartridges. There are quite a few smokeless powders that are easy powders in BPCR..You already know of trailboss and then there is AA 5744 Many others too VV has some powders that can be used. And there is another thing..Many people now have never used Black powder or anything resembling it..so they do not know what to do after shooting the corrosive powders. Heck most don't even know how to clean a rifle using smokeless. Heck I have MLs of all kinds but since there is no actual ML seasons as such here in Wy..I don't hunt with one. Some do though..I do use the newer inlines though..as does my daughter and family as well as many friends in Md and Delaware. Most shoot the Savage Smokeless powder MLs. I know many don't consider them worthy ML rifles.. but I can say with certainty..Ol Dan'l or Davy or Jim Bridger would have used 'em with great happiness. If loading for other people commercially I personally would not load Black or Subs. If they request them...let 'em load the darn things themselves. Loading BPCR loads for accuracy takes as much testing as smokeless to find a good shooting load. In some cases...even more!
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skeet@huntchat.com Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" Benjamin Franklin
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#3
06-14-2014, 05:51 AM
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thanks for the info Skeet. I was just curious as I had run across some OLD reloaded brass marked as loaded with x grains of black powder, and after doing a google rabbit trail I came across a bunch of people who claim pyrodex is the best thing since sliced white bread, and a bunch who claim it is the devil's work.
 Heck I can't find EITHER anywhere around me anyway.Richard
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(Moderator - Gear & Gadgets, Cowboy Action, SouthWest Regional, Small Game) GoodOlBoy@huntchat.com For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. - John 3:16 KJV Then I commended mirth, because a man hath no better thing under the sun, than to eat, and to drink, and to be merry: for that shall abide with him of his labour the days of his life, which God giveth him under the sun. - Ecclesiastes 8:15 KJV "The gun has been called the great equalizer, meaning that a small person with a gun is equal to a large person, but it is a great equalizer in another way, too. It insures that the people are the equal of their government whenever that government forgets that it is servant and not master of the governed." - 40th President of the United States Ronald Reagan 1911-2004
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#4
06-14-2014, 08:52 AM
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GOB,
I have used Goex 2F and Pyrodex RS in .45/70 cartridges. Both worked well in my M1884 Rifle. Use hot soapy water to clean both the bore and cartridge cases after shooting Goex or Pyrodex. Both propellants will ruin a fired cartridge case very quickly without a good soapy water scrubbing with a bristle brush inside and out. Adam
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Adam Helmer
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#5
06-14-2014, 05:56 PM
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If you will remember, I looked at a TC about two weeks ago. I never saw such a corroded mess. Pyrodex and no cleaning!
Dan 
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Lifes not meant to be a journey to the grave with the intentions of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thouroughly used up, totally wore out,loudly proclaiming.... WOW.....WHAT A RIDE.......
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#6
03-11-2015, 07:55 AM
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I have been using Triple 7 for the last few years, as it performs better for me than Pyrodex. I have six cap&ball revolvers and a modern inline ML rifle.
I find the Triple 7 is much cleaner and less corrosive than Pyrodex. No experience with true BP as no one locally sells it. Common knowledge says Triple 7 is "10%" hotter than BP, so loads should be lowered a bit. I don't find this true, and load using standard BP data, works fine for me.
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