357 Maximum

[Rapier]

Lone Star,
Actually, the SM cruises at about 50K. It will step on out there, but rarely is anything over 50K needed. I have pushed the El Dorado to the point that it became "alive" when fired, just to find out how hard it could be pushed. By alive, I mean the gun comes back, up and sideways while it twists on the bore axis, all in one motion. That is my "maximum" on a heavy magnum. With the 357 SM in a revolver, "alive" occours at about 1750-1800 fps with a 200 grain bullet.

By the by, I did have an original stainless DW 10 inch 445 SM that I sold last year, I do have first rights of return. :-) It will do 2,000 with a 220 cast. It also shoots 3/4 inch groups. One trip to the woods deer hunting and it did not go back, too big, too heavy.
Ed

[Lone Star]

Actually, the SM cruises at about 50K...

Nope, not at 50,000 psi it doesn't, and it never did. Some reloaders still confuse psi with CUP, and this is what has apparently happened here. The SAAMI MAP standard for the .357 Rem Max is 48,000 CUP, or 40,000 psi. Go here for the facts:
http://www.accuratepowder.com/loadda...ard_357cal.htm
http://www.leverguns.com/articles/saami_pressures.htm

[Rapier]

I did not confuse anything nor did I misread your post. What I said in my post was 50K, what you assume is on you, you do understand about assume, do you not? You said PSI, I did not say, nor did I mean PSI.

However, My information about the 357 Super Mag predates the manual, SAMI specs and any writings, except those of Elgin, himself. The information about the cartridge in the Accurate manual is in error from top to bottom. I am surprised that they have printed such tripe. The cartridge, as were all of the Super Mag series, was designed for use in the IHMSA by the former president of the IHMSA, period.

Remington attempted to claim the design as their own; they did not develop anything except a good case of heartburn responding to Elgin Gate's lawyers. In a letter, published in the Silhouette, Remington admitted that the design was given to them by Elgin and that they made an error in claiming it was their design or that they had any part in the design. Ruger built the SRM to Elgin's specifications, except that Bill Ruger, himself, decided to shorten the cylinder and frame in the 11th hour, just prior to production. David Bradshaw, then from Vermont, and a member of the board of the IHMSA was the liaison between Bill and Elgin. Dan Wesson's gun was second out and was built precisely as Elgin had specified. The SRM died, the DW lived.

The 357 Super Mag case was designed by Elgin to do 55K, easily, and it does so. It was also designed for heavy bullets using extruded powder.

There has been more HS/BS written about the 357 SM cartridge by "knowledgeable" writers than I can shake a stick at. Most is just that, BS.

My first two SRMs were shipped to me by Steve Vogel, VP of SR and Bill's son in-law, through Davidson. Davidson was located across the street from the main plant. My two guns were hand carried by Steve across the street, or at least that is what he told me when he called to confirm shipment. The first guns pre-dated any brass being available.

Remington did not offer the first brass offered for sale to the public, it was offered by Federal, had a ram head stamp and was sold through the Silhouette, if I recall correctly.

Ed

[Lone Star]

I did not confuse anything nor did I misread your post. What I said in my post was 50K, what you assume is on you, you do understand about assume, do you not? You said PSI, I did not say, nor did I mean PSI.

We'll let the rest of the readers decide what you really meant, but after the defensive response above it seems pretty clear to me....

All the posturing about the SM is interesting, but it seems designed more to distract from the point of issue than to provide clarity. My credits: I bought SM brass from Elgin the first year he offered it through the Silhouette, but of course we know that Elgin originally intended to use heavy silhouette bullets in it, not the lightweight stuff Remington and the gunwriters used. Still, his chambering/throat specs were different than what Remington used in their .357 Maxi, which afterall is the subject of this thread. DW at one time did use dimensions closer to what Elgin envisioned, but I don't know about the smaller makers like ED. Firearms chambered to the .357 Maximum should use data for the .357 Maxi, not for the .357 SM.

But the bottom line remains the same. The poster asked what the differences were between the .357 Mag and the .357 Maxi. The .357 Maxi has a maximum chamber pressure of 48,000 psi/40,000 cup. Recommending pressures above SAMMI specs is, well, not too wise. Not specifiying the units you are using is irresponsible and could easily get the less informed into trouble. None of us want that.