The Charlie Foxtrot down South: Heads should roll

[Deerman]

DS you just hate Pres.Bush,maybe you'll have Queen Hillary next!!Say is that another airplane I see?!?

[Skinny Shooter]

No more personal attacks please or I lock the thread.

What has come out of this is there's no use expecting government to take care of you (big surprise ).

Self-reliance for all should take on new meaning after seeing how well "officials in charge" can handle emergency situations.

Keep your powder dry.

[Steverino]

I was at my in-laws over the weekend doing some home improvement projects for them and one evening, like most Americans now are doing, turned on the evening news to follow the hurricane relief efforts.

When a news correspondant interviewed the New Orleans mayor, Nagin, none of us could believe how inept and tactless this man was and were just incredulous that he could ever be in that particular position!

He's an idiot!

The race card that is being touted by the media is ticking me off as well. Having lived down South myself, I know full well that the majority of the delays were most likely the result of geographic culture as opposed to any orchestrated effort to facilitare racial bias during this disaster.

[Mil Dot]

In watching some of this coverage over the coarse of the last week there sure seems to be a lot of folks making comments on the line of why don't you save me first. I definitley understand their position but the S&R people are few and those needing help are many. I don't believe the feds are to blame here, but the local and state officials ought to be smacked down and served up. I saw a school bus barn with probably a 100 buses parked in it with water up to the roof tops ... why were they there?! Should have been hauling evacuees the day before. What good are evacuation sites without supplies. Why weren't the major roads build up higher than lake level? The race question is just plan ignorance with the scope of this disaster, the city and region is predominantly african-american it's a question of which family of african-americans to save first.

GW declared the region a disaster area before the the storm even made land fall. Mayor of NO and Governor of LA ... here's your sign!

[Deerman]

Mil I saw the buses too.I didn't know weather to laugh or cry.

[DogYeller]

Laugh

[fabsroman]

The mayor probably didn't want to spend the money on gas to evacuate all those people, because at the time it seemed unnecessary. That would cut into what he would be able to use the money for (hint, hint).

This is a completely terrible situation.

What kills me too is that Congress has already scheduled hearings to determine who is to blame. How about scheduling some hearings to determine how to fix this mess, where the money will come from to fix this mess, and how to prevent this type of mess in the future.

DS,

I know almost nothing about FEMA and didn't think I wrote writing too much about it. However, at your request I will try to limit my posts on FEMA because I do not know too much about that agency anyway.

[Hawkeye6]

Hey Fabs, I don't know it for certain, but I understand that the City of New Orleans did have a disaster plan for Cat 3 and above hurricanes. The Mayor just did not bother to implement it.

DS -- I wonder whose the bigger fool. The man who did not implement a disaster plan or the man who declared a disaster area before the storm hit so that the Feds could begin to respond immediiately? Hmmmm.

[skeeter@ccia.com]

If you were an employee somewhere earning a paycheck, and your boss asked you how things were where you were, probably say..all is well..so when his super asks the q to him, he says ..all is well...so now the owner of said company asks how things are..all is well..when this man talks to the mayor of the town..all is well..when the state reps ask how things are in the mayors town..sure the mayor wants them to think all is well...so there is nothing to report to the governor that he can pass on to GW..so GW rides along on his bike and crashes because the brakes failed because the factory worker didn't want anyone to know he didn't do his job right because someone 'found' the tools he left out.. the news media tells everyone GW can't even ride a bike...so GW takes the rap....who can you and why do you have to blame anyone other than yourself for not checking the brakes before you rode...If I lived where they said duck or swim with them, I would put my kids, what ever I needed into my grocery buggy..( they are everywhere anyhow and easy to find)..and not intended to tote big screen tv's...and started walking..In the week I had to walk, probably would have made it at least 100 miles to high ground..just about then, mother nature would have moved the path of the storm 100 miles from my home...oops...maybe I should have just stayed home....we just need to start taking care of ourselves more and stop relying on others to do so...if you follow the lead dog all the time..the view never changes..get the heck off your duff and maybe use your crack pipe to boil some water...daaa..the place flooded so is enough there....boil water and feed to those stuck on the bridge with you..help some...stop the hand out ...how can everyone expect to be first when the line forms in the rear?...some things take time...somone had to gather the food and water ..a day for that..truck it thousands of miles..few days for that..lots of those sitting with a hand out could have been handing out to speed things up...the news media starts lots of things..example..they told about the plastic gas tanks in cars now and is easy to drill hole and drain..daaa..why didn't I think of that?..but thanks for the info......wow..this all might seem offbase but is early in morning here and seemed like what to say...lol..we are in this mess together...together we will survive...

[Slim-Zippy]

We have not seen the worst of this disaster yet. There are reports of bodies stacked in coolers in the superdome.Most of the injuries and deaths were acts of violence of one person or gang on another. People acted like total animals while inside the dome and convention center.There was not enough food, water health and sanitation avbailable for those in the superdome. Murder, rape, robbery and just about everything else one person can do to another that is horrible and tragic. People were evacuated to the seventh level of hell. I would sure think about public evecuations facilities long and hard before I went to stay in one.

It's constitutional law that the federal gov. cannot intercede in the state gov. until requested. When asked our fed gov. did a very good job of it and are still getting NO in good shape.

The mayor and governor were incredibly incompetent in their actions, words, and deeds. I would have a flicker of respect for them if they would actually own up to this unholy mess that killed and ruined so many people. I feel terrible for the few decent police officers on the NO police department that have been branded by what the rest of the police department did and did not do and how they acted during this catastrophy.

When will our people kick our politicians, national media, and Hollywood elite in the arse and tell them it's OK to play partisan politics, BUT NOT AT THE EXPENSE OF OUR COUNTRY. If we don't stand together we shall all surely hang seperately. The USA may not be the lone super power in the next century and national unity and the other attributes that made this country great from the beginning are needed now more than ever.

Aplogize for the rant, but our society is getting worse, not better and it aggravates me to have to watch.

Slim

[Skinny Shooter]

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110007219

Blame Amid the Tragedy
Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin failed their constituents.

BY BOB WILLIAMS
Wednesday, September 7, 2005 12:01 a.m. EDT

As the devastation of Hurricane Katrina continues to shock and sadden the nation, the question on many lips is, Who is to blame for the inadequate response?

As a former state legislator who represented the legislative district most impacted by the eruption of Mount St. Helens in 1980, I can fully understand and empathize with the people and public officials over the loss of life and property.

Many in the media are turning their eyes toward the federal government, rather than considering the culpability of city and state officials. I am fully aware of the challenges of having a quick and responsive emergency response to a major disaster. And there is definitely a time for accountability; but what isn't fair is to dump on the federal officials and avoid those most responsible--local and state officials who failed to do their job as the first responders. The plain fact is, lives were needlessly lost in New Orleans due to the failure of Louisiana's governor, Kathleen Blanco, and the city's mayor, Ray Nagin.

The primary responsibility for dealing with emergencies does not belong to the federal government. It belongs to local and state officials who are charged by law with the management of the crucial first response to disasters. First response should be carried out by local and state emergency personnel under the supervision of the state governor and his emergency operations center.

The actions and inactions of Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin are a national disgrace due to their failure to implement the previously established evacuation plans of the state and city. Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin cannot claim that they were surprised by the extent of the damage and the need to evacuate so many people. Detailed written plans were already in place to evacuate more than a million people. The plans projected that 300,000 people would need transportation in the event of a hurricane like Katrina. If the plans had been implemented, thousands of lives would likely have been saved.

In addition to the plans, local, state and federal officials held a simulated hurricane drill 13 months ago, in which widespread flooding supposedly trapped 300,000 people inside New Orleans. The exercise simulated the evacuation of more than a million residents. The problems identified in the simulation apparently were not solved.





A year ago, as Hurricane Ivan approached, New Orleans ordered an evacuation but did not use city or school buses to help people evacuate. As a result many of the poorest citizens were unable to evacuate. Fortunately, the hurricane changed course and did not hit New Orleans, but both Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin acknowledged the need for a better evacuation plan. Again, they did not take corrective actions. In 1998, during a threat by Hurricane George, 14,000 people were sent to the Superdome and theft and vandalism were rampant due to inadequate security. Again, these problems were not corrected.
The New Orleans contingency plan is still, as of this writing, on the city's Web site, and states: "The safe evacuation of threatened populations is one of the principle [sic] reasons for developing a Comprehensive Emergency Management Plan." But the plan was apparently ignored.

Mayor Nagin was responsible for giving the order for mandatory evacuation and supervising the actual evacuation: His Office of Emergency Preparedness (not the federal government) must coordinate with the state on elements of evacuation and assist in directing the transportation of evacuees to staging areas. Mayor Nagin had to be encouraged by the governor to contact the National Hurricane Center before he finally, belatedly, issued the order for mandatory evacuation. And sadly, it apparently took a personal call from the president to urge the governor to order the mandatory evacuation.

The city's evacuation plan states: "The city of New Orleans will utilize all available resources to quickly and safely evacuate threatened areas." But even though the city has enough school and transit buses to evacuate 12,000 citizens per fleet run, the mayor did not use them. To compound the problem, the buses were not moved to high ground and were flooded. The plan also states that "special arrangements will be made to evacuate persons unable to transport themselves or who require specific lifesaving assistance. Additional personnel will be recruited to assist in evacuation procedures as needed." This was not done.

The evacuation plan warned that "if an evacuation order is issued without the mechanisms needed to disseminate the information to the affected persons, then we face the possibility of having large numbers of people either stranded and left to the mercy of a storm, or left in an area impacted by toxic materials." That is precisely what happened because of the mayor's failure.

Instead of evacuating the people, the mayor ordered the refugees to the Superdome and Convention Center without adequate security and no provisions for food, water and sanitary conditions. As a result people died, and there was even rape committed, in these facilities. Mayor Nagin failed in his responsibility to provide public safety and to manage the orderly evacuation of the citizens of New Orleans. Now he wants to blame Gov. Blanco and the Federal Emergency Management Agency. In an emergency the first requirement is for the city's emergency center to be linked to the state emergency operations center. This was not done.





The federal government does not have the authority to intervene in a state emergency without the request of a governor. President Bush declared an emergency prior to Katrina hitting New Orleans, so the only action needed for federal assistance was for Gov. Blanco to request the specific type of assistance she needed. She failed to send a timely request for specific aid.
In addition, unlike the governors of New York, Oklahoma and California in past disasters, Gov. Blanco failed to take charge of the situation and ensure that the state emergency operation facility was in constant contact with Mayor Nagin and FEMA. It is likely that thousands of people died because of the failure of Gov. Blanco to implement the state plan, which mentions the possible need to evacuate up to one million people. The plan clearly gives the governor the authority for declaring an emergency, sending in state resources to the disaster area and requesting necessary federal assistance.

State legislators and governors nationwide need to update their contingency plans and the operation procedures for state emergency centers. Hurricane Katrina had been forecast for days, but that will not always be the case with a disaster (think of terrorist attacks). It must be made clear that the governor and locally elected officials are in charge of the "first response."

I am not attempting to excuse some of the delays in FEMA's response. Congress and the president need to take corrective action there, also. However, if citizens expect FEMA to be a first responder to terrorist attacks or other local emergencies (earthquakes, forest fires, volcanoes), they will be disappointed. The federal government's role is to offer aid upon request.

The Louisiana Legislature should conduct an immediate investigation into the failures of state and local officials to implement the written emergency plans. The tragedy is not over, and real leadership in the state and local government are essential in the months to come. More importantly, the hurricane season is still upon us, and local and state officials must stay focused on the jobs for which they were elected--and not on the deadly game of passing the emergency buck.

[Valigator]

My city, not the one I live in, but my city I love...is great..they just set up a website and pretty much told people God aint comin down from the sky folks, so we gotta get a citizens group together...man that was a breath of fresh air...I stepped up to the plate with what I got, so I mailed them and asked what they needed....could be things we havent even thought of....I am so proud of my city, if they raised my taxes a 1000.00 bucks this year I would pay with a smile...dont know many people who would....course they know I am up their butts every day....so they play straight....no kidding I am really proud of where my tax dollars go... in that city...not in the one I am writing from...

[Skinny Shooter]

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/09/09/D8CGUA3G0.html

Embattled Brown Taken Off Katrina Duty
Sep 09 3:39 PM US/Eastern


By LARA JAKES JORDAN
Associated Press Writer


WASHINGTON


Federal Emergency Management Agency Director Michael Brown, the principal target of harsh criticism of the Bush administration's response to Hurricane Katrina, was relieved of his onsite command Friday.

He will be replaced by Coast Guard Vice Adm. Thad W. Allen, who was overseeing New Orleans relief, recovery and rescue efforts, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff announced.

Earlier, Brown confirmed the switch. Asked if he was being made a scapegoat for a federal relief effort that has drawn widespread and sharp criticism, Brown told The Associated Press after a long pause: "By the press, yes. By the president, no."

"Michael Brown has done everything he possibly could to coordinate the federal response to this unprecedented challenge," Chertoff told reporters in Baton Rouge, La. Chertoff sidestepped a question on whether the move was the first step toward Brown's leaving FEMA.

But a source close to Brown, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the FEMA director had been considering leaving after the hurricane season ended in November and that Friday's action virtually assures his departure.

Brown has been under fire and facing calls for his resignation because of the administration's slow response to the magnitude of the hurricane. On Thursday, questions were raised about whether he padded his resume to exaggerate his previous emergency management background.

Less than an hour before Brown's removal came to light, White House press secretary Scott McClellan said Brown had not resigned and the president had not asked for his resignation.

Democratic lawmakers weren't satisfied with the move; they immediately demanded Brown's ouster from FEMA.

"The events of the last ten days have shown that Mr. Brown has repeatedly exercised poor judgment and has failed in his basic responsibilities," said a letter to Bush from Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid and Sens. Dick Durbin, Debbie Stabenow and Charles E. Schumer. "His continued presence in this critical position endangers the success of the ongoing recovery efforts. ... It is not enough to remove Mr. Brown from the disaster scene."

Republican Sen. Trent Lott, whose Pascagoula, Miss., home was destroyed in the storm, said he, too, had concluded that FEMA "was overwhelmed, undermanned and not capable of doing its job" under Brown's leadership.

"Michael Brown has been acting like a private, instead of a general," Lott said.

Chertoff suggested the shift came as the Gulf Coast efforts were entering "a new phase of the recovery operation." He said Brown would return to Washington to oversee the government's response to other potential disasters.

"I appreciate his work, as does everybody here," Chertoff said.

In a telephone interview with AP, Brown said he was "anxious to get back to D.C. to correct all the inaccuracies and lies that are being said." Asked if the move was a demotion, Brown said: "No. No. I'm still the director of FEMA."

He said Chertoff made the decision to move him out of Louisiana. It was not his own decision, Brown said.

"I'm going to go home and walk my dog and hug my wife, and maybe get a good Mexican meal and a stiff margarita and a full night's sleep. And then I'm going to go right back to FEMA and continue to do all I can to help these victims," Brown said. "This story's not about me. This story's about the worst disaster of the history of our country that stretched every government to its limit and now we have to help these victims."

The White House had insisted publicly for days that Bush retained confidence in his FEMA chief. Last Friday, Bush praised Brown during a tour of Alabama, telling him, "Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job."

But there was no question that Brown's star was fading in the administration. In the storm's early days, Brown was the president's primary briefer on its path and the response effort, but by the weekend those duties had been taken over by Chertoff.

Even before Chertoff's announcement, the beleaguered Brown was facing questions Friday about his resume.

Bush administration documents have credited Brown with overseeing emergency services while working for the city of Edmond, Okla., in the mid-1970s. Brown's official biography on the FEMA Web site says he served as "an assistant city manager." But a former mayor of Edmond, Randel Shadid, told AP on Friday that Brown had been an assistant to the city manager _ never assistant city manager.

"I think there's a difference between the two positions," said Shadid. "I would think that is a discrepancy."

Asked later about the White House news release that said Brown oversaw Edmond's emergency services divisions, Shadid said, "I don't think that's a total stretch."

A longtime acquaintance, Carl Reherman, said Brown was very involved in helping set up Edmond's emergency operations center and assisting in the creation of an emergency contingency plan in the 1970s. At the time, Reherman was a city councilman, and he later became mayor.

FEMA deputy strategic director Nicol Andrews said a report in Time magazine, which first detailed the discrepancies, was "very inaccurate."

Similarly, a January 2003 White House announcement of Brown's nomination to head FEMA lists his previous experience as "the Executive Director of the Independent Electrical Contractors," a trade group based in Alexandria, Va. Two officials of the group told Newsday this week that Brown never was the national head of the group but did serve as the executive director of a regional chapter in Colorado.

[ds]

This is my last post on huntchat. I have enjoyed my visits here, learned a little, maybe even gave some decent info once or twice. It is true I do not like Bush for many reasons, and seldome give him credit, even when he deserves it. I do not like him, and I am partisan. However, to watch people vehemently defend him, despite his obvious failures in this matter, is more than I can bear.

As I have said before, I have helped in disaster relief situations before, and seen some pretty horrible things. A colleague who I have worked with has been down in New Orleans a few days now, and has told me of horrible things he has seen. In short, animals are scavaging human remains. My friend states it looks like a Nuclear War Zone. My heart cannot bear this and watch people defend the president in this matter. These were real people. They bled real blood, and they lived real lives. Some of them were bad, but some of them were probably good too, some of them were old, and some of them were simply babies.

My opinions are too different here to stay, and my personal experiences make me too bias to sit her idly and not scream or retch when the masses praise this administration.

Here is the Press Release that was posted on August 27, 2005 -- a full day before the huricane hit. As you can see, the governor (and no, she is not blameless either) did ask to be declared in a state of emergency. Our government did not respond until five days later.

Thank you all, and good luck.


Press Release
Date: 8/27/2005


Contactenise Bottcher or Roderick Hawkins at 225-342-9037


Governor Blanco asks President to Declare an Emergency for the State of Louisiana due to Hurricane Katrina


BATON ROUGE—Today Governor Kathleen Babineaux Blanco forwarded a letter to President Bush requesting that he declare an emergency for the State of Louisiana due to Hurricane Katrina. The full text of the letter follows:

August 27, 2005


The President
The White House
Washington, D. C.

Through:
Regional Director
FEMA Region VI
800 North Loop 288
Denton, Texas 76209

Dear Mr. President:

Under the provisions of Section 501 (a) of the Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act, 42 U.S.C. §§ 5121-5206 (Stafford Act), and implemented by 44 CFR § 206.35, I request that you declare an emergency for the State of Louisiana due to Hurricane Katrina for the time period beginning August 26, 2005, and continuing. The affected areas are all the southeastern parishes including the New Orleans Metropolitan area and the mid state Interstate I-49 corridor and northern parishes along the I-20 corridor that are accepting the thousands of citizens evacuating from the areas expecting to be flooded as a result of Hurricane Katrina.

In response to the situation I have taken appropriate action under State law and directed the execution of the State Emergency Plan on August 26, 2005 in accordance with Section 501 (a) of the Stafford Act. A State of Emergency has been issued for the State in order to support the evacuations of the coastal areas in accordance with our State Evacuation Plan and the remainder of the state to support the State Special Needs and Sheltering Plan.

Pursuant to 44 CFR § 206.35, I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster. I am specifically requesting emergency protective measures, direct Federal Assistance, Individual and Household Program (IHP) assistance, Special Needs Program assistance, and debris removal.

Preliminary estimates of the types and amount of emergency assistance needed under the Stafford Act, and emergency assistance from certain Federal agencies under other statutory authorities are tabulated in Enclosure A.

The following information is furnished on the nature and amount of State and local resources that have been or will be used to alleviate the conditions of this emergency:
• Department of Social Services (DSS): Opening (3) Special Need Shelters (SNS) and establishing (3) on Standby.
• Department of Health and Hospitals (DHH): Opening (3) Shelters and establishing (3) on Standby.
• Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness (OHSEP): Providing generators and support staff for SNS and Public Shelters.
• Louisiana State Police (LSP): Providing support for the phased evacuation of the coastal areas.
• Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries (WLF): Supporting the evacuation of the affected population and preparing for Search and Rescue Missions.


Mr. President
Page Two
August 27, 2005


• Louisiana Department of Transportation and Development (DOTD): Coordinating traffic flow and management of the evacuations routes with local officials and the State of Mississippi.



The following information is furnished on efforts and resources of other Federal agencies, which have been or will be used in responding to this incident:
• FEMA ERT-A Team en-route.

I certify that for this emergency, the State and local governments will assume all applicable non-Federal share of costs required by the Stafford Act.

I request Direct Federal assistance for work and services to save lives and protect property.

(a) List any reasons State and local government cannot perform or contract for performance, (if applicable).

(b) Specify the type of assistance requested.

In accordance with 44 CFR § 206.208, the State of Louisiana agrees that it will, with respect to Direct Federal assistance:

1. Provide without cost to the United States all lands, easement, and rights-of-ways necessary to accomplish the approved work.

2. Hold and save the United States free from damages due to the requested work, and shall indemnify the Federal Government against any claims arising from such work;

3. Provide reimbursement to FEMA for the non-Federal share of the cost of such work in accordance with the provisions of the FEMA-State Agreement; and

4. Assist the performing Federal agency in all support and local jurisdictional matters.

In addition, I anticipate the need for debris removal, which poses an immediate threat to lives, public health, and safety.

Pursuant to Sections 502 and 407 of the Stafford Act, 42 U.S.C. §§ 5192 & 5173, the State agrees to indemnify and hold harmless the United States of America for any claims arising from the removal of debris or wreckage for this disaster. The State agrees that debris removal from public and private property will not occur until the landowner signs an unconditional authorization for the removal of debris.


I have designated Mr. Art Jones as the State Coordinating Officer for this request. He will work with the Federal Emergency Management Agency in damage assessments and may provide further information or justification on my behalf.

Sincerely,




Kathleen Babineaux Blanco
Governor
Enclosure


ENCLOSURE A TO EMERGENCY REQUEST


Estimated requirements for other Federal agency programs:
• Department of Social Services (DSS): Opening (3) Special Need Shelters (SNS) and establishing (3) on Standby. Costs estimated at $500,000 per week for each in operation.
• Department of Health and Hospitals (DHH): Opening (3) Shelters and establishing (3) on Standby. Costs estimated at $500,000 per week for each in operation.
• Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness (OHSEP): Providing generators and support staff for SNS and Public Shelters. Costs estimated to range from $250,000-$500,000 to support (6) Shelter generator operations.
• Louisiana State Police (LSP): Costs to support evacuations - $300,000 for a non-direct landfall.
• Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries (WLF): Costs to support evacuations - $200,000 for a non-direct landfall.
• Louisiana Department of Transportation and Development (DOTD): Costs to support evacuations - $2,000,000 for a non-direct landfall.


Totals: $ 9,000,000

Estimated Requirements for assistance under the Stafford Act:

Coordination: $0
Technical and advisory assistance: $0
Debris removal: $0
Emergency protective measures: $ 9,000,000
Individuals and Households Program (IHP): $0
Distribution of emergency supplies: $0
Other (specify): $0

Totals: $ 9,000,000
Grand Total: $ 9,000,000

[TreeDoc]

...and of that, what did they or did they not get?

I'm of firm belief that GW is blowin' it on many fronts like for not wiping off the face of the earth radical islamist strongholds like Falujah, etc. as well as his pussyfooting on our own border issues but from the sound of it, ds, it sounds to me like you're blaming George Bush for the Huricane but then again, why not? Ted Kennedy just blamed Bush and the entire administration for their policies which apparently are now causing Saturn's Rings to change.

You might want to check the rings around Ur anus, me thinks there are some Clingons abound.