Powder recommendations for .308 & .30/06

[Ol` Joe]

Originally posted by Blktail
Kutenay

Where did you get your load data for the 57 gr of 4350 with a 180 gr bullet.
My manual indicates a max load of 53 gr with a 180 gr jacketed bullet.
I would love to get that velocity with a 180 gr bullet. Your help would be greatly appreciated.

Nosler lists 55 gr of IMR4350 and Speer shows 58.0 gr of H4350 for 2756 and 2758 respectivly with 180 gr bullets. Speer used a 22" bbl and Nosler a 24".

NOTE THERE ARE TWO DIFFERENT POWDERS LISTED, THEY AREN`T THE SAME! Accurate also manufactures AA4350 which is different yet. Be sure to have the proper data for the powder, the 4350s are very similar but are not the same!

[kutenay]

I have owned at least a dozen .30-06 rifles since 1967 as well as a half dozen .308s during that time. I worked up to the loads I posted and many guys I know use the 57-4350-180 recipe, this with either IMR or Hodgdon powders, some go a tad hotter with the latter.

I have never seen a BOLTACTION rifle in correct headspace that won't handle this load, but, each rifle is different and requires careful load development. Use your chronograph with your rifle and stop when you hit 2750 mv with 4350-180s, Hornadys go faster easier and Barnes and Swift A-Frames go slower; this is easy to do and unless you experience pressure indications, most 22" bbl'ed. '06 rifles will go 2800 mv with 180s....2700-2750 suits me.

Many .308s will nudge 2700 with 180s and a case full of 4350 or 4831, I have done this lots of times, but, I prefer H-335, H-414, W-760, IMR-4064 and especially RE-15 for close to the same velocities with far less blast.

If, you do not have/use a chronograph, I would NOT go above listed max. loads in the latest manuals with ANY rifle/load; I have scads of manuals, old and new, but, I use Nosler and Hodgdon plus "Pet Loads" the most......hope this helps you.

[Desert Fox]

I can't comment on .06 but I do own a 308 and my recipe for 168 grain bullet is 45 grain of BLC on Federal Match Brass ignited by Federal match primer. Average velocity 2680 fps. Excellent accuracy. For 155 grain Lapua Scenar, 44.8 grain Varget. Velocity according to my Pact Pro-Chronograph around 2875 fps. Outstanding accuracy.

[Downwindtracker2]

I have three loads that go over 2700 in three 30.06s. One I have uses a slow lot of IMR 4350 with 57.0gr that goes accurately and a fast 2775,but I would say it's a bit too robust. I use it for hunting only. Better loads are H-4350 55.8 and N-560 61.3,both do 2740.I haven't used it ,but I keep hearing about 61+ of RL 22 for 2800.

[kutenay]

Yeah, Ray (DWT) I heard that too, so, I loaded a bunch of NPs in my rifles and headed out to Mission, hot and excited; I used both a Chrony and an Oehler 35P and averaged about 2680. This was about four years back, not long before I met you out there and I tried two different lots of RE-22.

About the late '80s, I kept hearing all sorts of wonderful things about the 180 NP in the '06 and the 250 NP in the .338 over H-4831. I experimented until my shoulder was beat to a frazzle and NEVER got over 2660 with top loads in either, far below Nosler Manual specs and you know how many rifles I have to play with!

So, I still gotta go with H-4350 overall, but, RE-19 has done well for some of my buddies; as you know, these RE slower powders can be a tad "spikey" and too temperature sensitive, but, can really perform if the loads are built with that in mind.

Maybe Sunday next at Mission?????, if the H20 is not pouring out of the sky?

[Downwindtracker2]

For the 308,Steve has gone back to RL-15 after a trial of Varget for his precision rifle.He would have to buy a Lee powder measure if wants to try IMR4064.I use the old target load of 51.6 of IMR 4064 and a 150 in my M-70 30-06,I'm not sure I would go beyond that,even if it only goes 2800.I use to say IMR4350 burned more consistantly than my H-4350,but the last lot of IMR 4350 is as slow and as inconsistant.I guess it's just the lot #.These velocities are with 22" factory barrels.

RL-19 has given me tiny groups at starting loads.180 30-06,but I was looking for a hunting load.

The range is closed this weekend and next for work bees,you coming?

[Mike Moss]

Both the Dupont and IMR handloaders guides show 57 grs of IMR 4350 as maximum for the 30-06 and 180 gr bullets.

The velocity is 2750 fps.

I have used loads like that for years and done well even with military brass!

Presently I shot 58 grs pushing the 178 gr AMax out of my Ruger #1.

I never got consistant accuracy from 30-06 sporters as good as Kutenay gets. Perhaps he is a better shot than I am and has better guns. Most of my 30-06 sporters shoot 1" at 100 yds if I am lucky with 1.25" normal.

[Downwindtracker2]

I shoot off of sandbags front and back,with sandbags behind the butt.No sense getting beat up.

I think the biggest things that get in the way are primer lots and the powder lots. Since I shoot a same practice load,165BTSP hornadys and enough IMR 4350 to go 2620.Three lot# used the same amount,the eight pound jug went 2gr more and opened up to 1" groups.This lot# of Winchester primers are much better than the last lot#.

Since my M-70 and M-700 are push feed they are more accurate than Kutney's CRFs

[kutenay]

Hah, what bulltwaddle!!!! PFs are for pussies!!!!

As to my current .30-06 rifles, they are a minty P-64 Mod. 70 FWT, professionally pillar-bedded in a Pacific Research stock, wearing a Leupy 3.5x10x50, this rifle averages under a m.o.a. consistently and I have had it since '91. I found it in a Vancouver Is. gunshop for a fraction of it's value and grabbed it with great glee as any sane rifle "looney" would.

I have a nearly new Mannlicher-Schoenauer carbine, a MCA version made in 1971 wearing a Leupy 1.75x6 and it shoots just like the Mod. 70. I have not touched the bedding as this is a collectible, valuable piece, except to waterproof it, but, the other post-war MS carbine/rifle I have had were also tackdrivers, contrary to the popular belief among those who have never owned or shot one.

I have a 1956 vintage Brno ZG-47 long barrel and a Browning Safari made in '61, both in nearly new, untouched condition and they give a tad over an inch with 4x Zeiss or 4x Leupy. I had another stone-mint short barrel ZG-47 that shot under an inch and a number of well-used P-65 STD. s that would do as well.

These are all very well made rifles and this shows in both their consistent accuracy and flawless function. None of them are now easy to find or inexpensive, but, the value is there and a person can depend on these rifles under the worst conditions, performance is what counts to me.

[Cal Sibley]

My .308Win. is a Browning Micromedallion which has a 1 in 12" pencil thin, short barrel. I do best with the lighter bullets like the Nosler 125gr. Bal.Tip. It's also quite accurate with the Sierra 150gr. HPBT. The 168gr. bullets are marginal in this rifle and the 180s are out of the question. I can usually get slightly under 1 inch with the Sierra 168HPBT and 42.2grs. of Varget which comes in around .85" (5 at 100yds.). It's really a tradeoff as this rile only weighs 6.2lbs. This light rascal has a potent kick to it. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

[bulletpusher]

In a word

VARGET

If you will check your loading tables in almost all of the loading books available you will see that Varget is listed on alot of the cartridges.

I've tried it in .30-06, .308, .25-06, .270 & .45-70. It seems to work very well in almost every thing that I've tried it in and is listed for a multitude of others.

In my opinion it may not be the best universal application powder, but it sure seems to be.

Just food (powder) for thought.

Bulletpusher