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#16
12-05-2006, 11:07 AM
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However! They are something like 1%-4% of the total Muslim population in the country. And ONLY <1% of the total World Muslim population. And they put their life in danger by just speaking out, as you see in the above news story.....I've seen it here...  They are not enough, not Nearly enough for any kind of change to take place, before some kind of >BIG< confrontation is going to happen. scalerman: The "Spirit" behind their religion....->IS<- the religion. Their religion, Your Religion. And It's not that I disagree with you, I'd like nothing better than to have both sides sit down and work things out! In modern, civilized society...We should always try this approach first. Like we did with Iraq. But! We should also be just as willing/ready to go beyond idle talk. Peace would be a great thing! Everyone getting along, live and let live..and all that.  I'm just to much a realest to think that it will EVER happen in real life. But ->HERE<- We have that choice, because of the brave people who stand/have stood between Us, and those who would do us harm. Well...we did...untill we gave the Terrorist's "buddies" control of our own government. Tall Shadow 
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#17
12-05-2006, 11:24 AM
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Tall Shadow, I agree with you. Personally I don't think anyone will ever be able to live side-by-side with Islam.
__________________
The first ammendment provides for freedom of speech, not freedom from consequences.
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#18
12-05-2006, 01:26 PM
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The fact that they are winning politicaly is a real crime. If the western media points out any bad (but true) points in the Islamic religion, they are targeted by fellow westerners, just to be politically correct!
Our out dated constitution is no help either, Freedom of religion and the seperation of church and state was based on the Henery VIII creating the Prodistent Church of England, and causing the split between Catholics & Prodistants, with a still on going rift in N.Ireland. When the founding fathers included the Freedom of Religon, they met the within the different Christian religons. Does anyone think George Washington, Ben Franklin or John Handcock and the gang, intended Islam and Voo-Doo and Satanic based religon would be tolerated? We give other religons more tolerance than Christianity. But if any US political figure brought this up, they would have their picture burned next to the Popes in every Islamic country in the world. We can't even have the Ten Commandments on display. I saw on FOX News the Suprime Court may have to rule on Christmas Trees in schools! We Americans, and Westerners have to treat our core values better. I think Australlia did it best, religon or not, if you can't obey the Aussy laws, get the heck out! A lesson in Islamic tolerance..............In Saudi Arabia, in remote villages, the cleric enforces the law. One way for him to determine guilt is to have the accused LICK A LADEL THAT WAS BURNING IN AN OPEN FLAME PIT! Then he examines the blisters on the tounge. If the accused refuses to do the lick, he simply looses hands or his head. The TEST is not done to women. Big suprise. And today on a English documentary, I saw a feature on Himmler (one of Hitlers top stooges) had a Muslem Regiment of SS formed from Bosnia. His thought on the matter,QUOTE:"....... nothing is better than a group of fighters who WANT to die for the cause of Allah. We can give them a cause!"
__________________
I tell you I don't get no respect. Why, the surgeon general, he offered me a cigarette. (Rodney)
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#19
12-05-2006, 02:12 PM
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 And anyone who says so, doesn't understand how and why it was written like it is.......AND had best be prepared to fight Me and a bunch of others about trying to destroy/discard it. It states: Freedom Of Religion, Not, Freedom From Religion! This country, and the very men who conceived of It, and all of it's ideals, had Cristian values virtually intertwined throughout them. To deny this is to deny the very ideas/ideals that Made this country what it is. And while I am not religious, or what you would call christian man. I do understand, and even admire the ideas/ideals that these men lived by....that many here, and across the country still do..... Quote:
You want it, fight for it! Stop those who bring about this type of crap..."Fire" them, after all...They are working for "US"! Quote:
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Just follow the rules or GOODBYE! Works for me......if we would only DO IT! Quote:
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But!, We need to remember to keep our own humanity, while hunting the "beasts". Lest we become, that which we despise. Tall Shadow
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#20
12-05-2006, 08:19 PM
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I agree Tall Shadow that we must be willing to defend the freedoms that the Muslims living in our countries enjoy. We must not allow their religion or any other for that matter dictate to us what we can and cannot do. What we choose to do or not to do is however another matter. I think though that one of the things that we must begin to enforce is the fact that if you choose to act outside of what society considers to be within the bounds of the law then you must be prepared to face the consequenses. Freedom to do as one chooses is not freedom from consequences. I once heard it put this way "for every right that we enjoy there is an equal responsibility that goes with it". We can't forget that there are alot of graves all over the world full of people who were willing to lay down their lives for the freedoms we enjoy. I'm fairly certain that alot of those people would take it back if they could if they were to see what our countries are doing and allowing to go on.
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#21
12-05-2006, 11:26 PM
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Tall Shadow
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#22
12-06-2006, 09:27 AM
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Tall Shadow I also agree with you that religion is the Spirit that is the problem. Jesus did not come to give us religion. Religion is the adherance to a set of rules as laid out by men in response to a set of beliefs gleaned from some type of religious writing. The Jewish people in the time of the old testament had a very lengthy set of rules governing what they could and could not do. Jesus said "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." Jesus took the Law and broke it down to these two commandments " Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." Now wouldn't life be grand if we all loved each other as our selves. Ah therein lies the problem- we do love each other as ourselves. Our education system tells us that we are nothing but an accident of evolution, that it is only the fittest that survive, there is only so much to go around- you better grab it while you can. This fosters a feeling of hopelessness. If I feel that there is no hope for me then I need to make sure that you feel there is no hope for you. It fosters a mindset that says I'm going to look out for number 1 and I don't care what happens to you. If we could understand what drove Jesus to die on the cross for our sins I think we would have a much different view of our selves. He asked God to release Him from His obligation of the cross three times but each time as soon as He asked to be released from that obligation He immediately followed with the statement "nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done". He resisted going to the cross so much that he sweat blood but still he said "nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done". Now that is loving others more than yourself. The Muslim people see Jesus as a prophet of Islam. Wait a minute now Jesus said he was the Son of God. Either this guy is loopy, lying or who he says He is. You cannot look at Him and say that we accept part of who He is and ignore the stuff we don't like. IMHO
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#23
12-06-2006, 10:36 AM
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Well scalerman, Who Jesus was, What he said, Who actually wrote the bible, and many..Many other questions about Him & Christianity, are something We could debate about for years.
The point is, We >Here< have the right (Freedom) to believe, or not, as We choose to, or not to. And this is as it should be. Worship what/whomever your choice is... Jesus -to- Bananas, and/or everything inbetween..go for it! But give others the same freedom. Wherever fanatics/tyrants are in control, However, this basic freedom is absent. Military, Religious, government..it doesn't matter...A fanatic/Tyrant is a Fanatic/Tyrant. The Islamo-Fascists are of the same type. It is, literally, Their way or Death/Destruction! Peace, Love, "Turning the other cheek", or the "Spreading the words of Jesus's Love" are NOT options with these monsters. This is the point I'm trying to get across. While I understand that your view(s) provide at least one solution to the conflict, it is a futile effort on your part. Please don't take this as an attack or disrespect to your beliefs, it's just that one would have a better chance to have a rock sing opera...or some other impossibility, than to hold a civilized conversation with fanatics. My $.02 Tall Shadow
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#24
12-06-2006, 04:56 PM
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Add to that stupid mistake, Jimmie "Peanut farmer" Carter stopping the CIA from doing "wet work" by executive order. makes mw wonder whose side those to bumbling idiots were on? OUr big problem in this country today is we no longer have the guts, or desire, to fight a proper war. To fight a proper war, one must have the desire to win. WEe lost in Korea. (I don't count a truce as a win.) Welost in Viet Nam, and we're losinf our ass in Iraq, all because the powers that be want to fight a "politically correct" war with no "collateral damage". can't happen, won't happen and too many American lives lost because of idiots pissing up a rope trying to be "nice" and not offend those who wish us dead. The should get their heads out of their asses and realize that out very existance offends them. What will it take to wake America up? A nuke in New York or DC? Several nukes all at the same time over various parts of this country? There is something like 10,000 mosques here in the U.S. today. That's a sizable Muslim population embedded in the population. While most probably are "peacable", by their silence, they aid and abet the enemy. That makes them just as guilty in my book. The problem is what to do about it? They have their consitutionally gauranteed right to freedom of religion, but do they have the right to support terrerist in the name of their religion. Looks like a very serious catch-22 to me. Paul B.
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#25
12-06-2006, 07:17 PM
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Tall Shadow I am in no way offended by your comments. I would welcome the opportunity to debate The Bible and the related issues with you some time. This however is not the appropriate forum. I am not naive enough to believe that 100% of Muslims would convert to Christianity but my point is that there is a growing number that are seeing the error of fanatical Islam and are turning from Islam because of it. There once was an old man who went down the beach after a storm and was throwing the star-fish that were on the beach back into the water. This was a very long stretch of beach with thousands of star-fish washed up on it. A young man asked why he was bothering to do as the job would take a considerable amount of time and some would surely die before he got to the other end of the beach. The old man replied that while the job did look to be endless it made the difference between life and death to the ones that he was able to throw back into the water. The point is this, no we will never be able to change the minds of all the Muslim people, but as long as we can persuade some of them to change their minds then we need to take that route. I don't think that killing all of them is the right answer either.
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