President's speech

[Riposte1]

Scalerman;

I do not know about the second part of your post (and mean that as written - I am ignorant of it, I probably need to study up) but I do have pretty good information on the first part.

"Innocent" means you beleive like them. The rest of us are "infidels". It is hardly "overreactive" when you look at their captured training tapes and intelligence and conclude that throwing women and children off the top of a hig rise building (because the news helicopters will be there to catch it on film) to conclude that we are dealing with a problem here that will not go away with a firm word or a threat.

That is coming to a city near you in the future if we do not prevail in this current fight over there (which IS working - the Rats come to the "cheese" and we are killing them wholesale).

At the same time, I would worry about my own salvation if I were not on Al Queda's "enimies list" because, make no mistake, if you are an active, beleiving Christian, you are in their chrosshairs!

"Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight" - PS 144;1


Riposte

[scalerman]

Heres hoping that there are more who are "worried about their salvation". I've heard some talking about Jesus and what He would do in this situation. I am not a theologian so I do not believe that my opinion could be construed as definitive. There are numerous ministries involved in bringing the Gospel to the Muslims. There are incredible accounts on a daily basis of Muslims being converted. This is awesome, wonderful news but how does it relate to those Muslims who are willing to kill themselves in order to kill a few Jews or Christians. How would Jesus react to this kind of situation? In the Gospel accounts of His life there were a number of occasions where those who heard his message wanted to kill Him. In more than one instance He walked through the crowd and escaped, right before their eyes. I guess the point is that while the messenger can be killed (as Jesus was) but His message lives on. He could not be killed until He was ready to die. Like Jesus said:

"Joh 10:17-18 Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I might take it again. (18) No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down from Myself. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it again. I have received this commandment from My Father.

Whether we like to admit it or not there is a spiritual component to this whole thing. We need to protect ourselves along with reaching out to those we are protecting ourselves from. Truth is being revealed and error exposed. The truth is the truth but it is the knowledge of the truth that brings freedom. It's not about one groups' truth versus anothers' it is about THE TRUTH. The sooner we all realize that the better.

Joh 8:31-32 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; (32) And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Act 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
Act 4:11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

I know that there are those who will be upset with me for this post but a man's got to do what a man's got to do. Our fight is not with the Muslim people per se. It is with a thought process that says that death to all others who do not think like we do is the only alternative. Now I know that the Christian "religion" has in the past been guilty of exactly this ( well not quite- they just killed them after conversion so thst they could not go back to their old ways- a confession under only a slight bit of duress). That was a long time ago and Christianity has moved on from there. The point is that we need to WAKE UP. Deal with this issue on the level it needs to be dealt with.

[skeet]

Scalerman,

Not being nasty or funny or anything. Y'all can try converting muslims or trying to change the terrorists point of view. But I won't. These last are the zealots of their religion and cannot be changed or converted. They even kill the people of their own religion...against the Koran's teaching. Do you know where the word assassin comes from?? And what the word means? Religion has so little to do with getting into paradise...and a whole lot to do with controlling people to do someone else's bidding to get there. I mean, You didn't see Osama bin Laden strapping a bomb on and being a true believer, did you? He got kids and young men to do that dirty deed! I have no dislike towards the Muslim religion or it's people!! The reason so many of the Muslim factions dislike(hate) christians has an awful lot to do with the enmity started before and during what Europeans called the Crusades. How do you change ingrained feelings of people that has been pounded into their heads for over 1000 yrs. Preach the christian religion to them for another 1000?? Oh...and they hate us also because we support the Jews and the Jewish state. Which is something I am not so sure we should be doing!!

Quoting" It's not about one groups' truth versus anothers' it is about THE TRUTH. The sooner we all realize that the better."

Somewhat simplistic thing to say. Your(and my) truths are completely at odds with those people's TRUTH. They simply do NOT believe what you do! That is what so many christians(and other religions) do not understand. The sooner you realize that the better!

[Valigator]

I dont know if any of you have seen recent interviews with some pretty prominant American Muslims ....but they are telling us to our face...wake up...one woman dont remember her name but her words were " I thought the American people would wake up and see the intentions of the extremist, after Sept. 11th but then you fell back asleep.....by the way she has a fattah ??on her head..

[scalerman]

Yes Skeet you are right, my statement is a very simplistic one and it is not what most want to hear. As far as I can see the whole issue hinges on what I said(IMHO). It is ideology and attitudes that we are fighting against. These are the things that must be changed before we can have any hope of being able to rest easy. The other alternative is a wholesale slaughter of those who think as they do- thus making those doing the slaughtering no better that those being slaughtered. My way takes alot longer but it invloves alot fewer dead bodies. The rate that Muslims are currently becoming disillusioned with and leaving Islam is unprecedented. I would like to see the Muslims issue a fahtwah (sp?) against those who are currently killing the "innocent" Jews and Christians. I'm not so sure that isn't so far away.

[skeet]

But there are more than a Billion(with a B) Muslims. You aren't going to convert them all. Get realistic. The ones we have to worry over are the extremists. Not the everyday people. The average muslim is not much different than you or me. They get up in the morning and just want to get through the day taking care of their work, families and all the day to day problems that all people have. Trying to convert people against their will also isn't a good idea. You can never get rid of all the extremists in any venue but if you can get to the leaders that (always) have someone else do their dirty work, you make a really good start. DON'T try to make people assume the same beliefs as you. The only thing you do in that instance is create extremism...not lessen it. I am not a daily or weekely church goer.... but I just have to make an observation here. Even being a self proclaimed Christian...why does every religion or church or denomination say We are the true church, the true Christians, the true believers, WE are right?? Every one... from the Catholic church to the Baptists to the Methodists to the Muslims! They ain't all right , ya know!! It seems that Religion has killed more people over the course of history than secular problems ever have. And quoting verses of the bible(especially the New Testament) to people who don't believe is a waste of time. Believe that

[skeet]

Trying to make people believe the way we do is probably one of the worst things the US, as a country, is doing in the world. Some people REALLY don't want a democratic way of life. Some seem to want a different form of government! Why don't we let THEM decide??

[scalerman]

Skeet I was once told a story about an old man walking down a beach after a violent storm. The beach was covered with starfish. The gentleman was going along throwing the starfish back into the water. A younger man came along and asked him what he was doing. The younger man noted that the beach was very long and that there were alot of starfish to throw back in. His point of view was that it would not make much of a difference to the starfish population if he threw them back in or not. The old man agreed that the task appeared to be a daunting one but he then held up the starfish that was currently in his hand said "it makes a world of difference to this one don't you think?"

The most effective way to change the world is one life at a time.

[Skyline]

Well............this topic is interesting. As usual the Christians........... be they Catholic, Protestant, Anglican, 7th Day Adventist, Johovah's Witness, Baptisit, Greek Orthodox, etc.............all think that they are the only way to salvation. The Muslims believe everyone else is an infidel and they have the only true faith. The Buddhists think they know the true path..............the list goes on.

So who is right? Well everyone knows they are right and the rest are wrong and doomed to eternity in the firey pits of hell, despite no proof of any kind in any of the various camps. Not real tangible proof.

I see much too much paternizing print by the self-righteous and all knowing, smug in their personal certainty that they are a true believer, following the true divine path, and the rest are in need of salvation, or perhaps I should say conversion.

In case I am coming across as an athiest, such is not the case, I am not against God at all, I am against 'Religion'. The religious zealots and their unfailing belief that they must go forth and cram their religion down everyone elses throats is why the world is always in such a bloody mess.

The problems across the pond are serious ones and in danger of becoming something much larger. The issue is "you leave us alone and we leave you alone", for all of us to live our daily lives in peace and practice whatever Religion we feel we must follow................it is not an issue of conversion. That is a waste of everyones time and untold lives. The last 3000 years have not been enough time for the one true faith to emerge and the next 3000 years probably won't accomplish this either.

Gee, do I sound cynical?

[Skyline]

Oh, and Skeet............I agree with a great deal of the things you have posted but I am astonished that you have quit coming to Canada to hunt due to our terrigble gun laws. What the hell?!

How on earth is that a problem for you? American hunters have been putting up with the BS of applying for a Visa, firearms permits etc, overseas to hunt in Asia and Africa for many decades. Now, just because you have to pay $25.00 for a temporary firearms licence as you enter Canada, that is a big enough deal to quit going to hunt here!????

I have to apply to the BATF about 3 months in advance to get a permit to bring my rifle into the US to go hunting. It might be the land of the free but that doesn't apply to us Canucks coming to the US to hunt. The hunters I guide are always bitching about that and yet most do not seem to know that their country makes others, even Canadians, jump through a few hoops to bring a rifle state side to hunt.

The US wants improved security and that applies to Canadians entering the US..............but we shouldn't ask anything of US citizens entering Canada? Come on boys! It is a sign of the times and you have been jumping through these hoops for many years to go to other countries.

Lastly, much of the security measures that neither of us likes crossing the border have been getting rammed down our throats by the US gov't and because we ARE your neighbours. The new Passport requirement was brought in and pushed by the US, not the Canadian government. in fact our government fought to have it toned down, but to no avail. You need it to get back into your own country thanks to YOUR government and yet I am always amused by the fact that most of the US hunters I guide seem to think it is Canada's fault that they are going to need a passport..............not their own government.

The bitching needs to stop...................even with the new measures, as far as crossing from one country to another goes, it is still relatively easy going back and forth between our two countries. I do not like it either, but it could be a hell of a lot worse. If a firearms permit stops you from coming to Canada then you best be planning on staying home for the rest of your life cause it ain't easier to go anywhere else.

Our British friends are in the process of making it mandatory for visitors to the UK to submit to fingerprinting/retina scans.........now there is something we should be pissing and moaning about!