How do you CCW folks practice?

[Adam Helmer]

Conrtenderizer,

If you "cannot figure out those safety thingies", then you SHOULD NOT carry that gun! If you cannot figure out the safety on a calm day at the range, rest assured you will NOT figure it out under Stress.

As for your question about carrying a 1911, let me advise you that the Colt 1911 was meant to be carried Locked and Cocked. If you do not carry the 1911 that way, let me assure you that RACKING the slide to charge the piece will direct the bad guy's fire onto you PRONTO! Nothing sounds like a 1911 slide being racked so much as a 1911 slide being racked and it is a DEAD give away if you are in a CCW situation! I suggest you stick with the revolver, for your own good.

Adam

[Contenderizer]

Adam,

Apparently my sense of humor missed the target.

While I actually do understand the function of the three safeties on my Llama (half-cock, thumb safety and grip safety), perhaps I don't understand the term Locked and Cocked. I was of the impression that it meant:

1)a round in the chamber
2)hammer "fully cocked"
3)safety(s) on.

If this is correct, then you have hit the nail on the head - I should stick with a revolver. I simply am not comfortable carrying any firearm with the hammer at full cock (as many people do).

When I asked my rather covert question about the method of draw for a 1911 "NOT" Locked and Cocked - I assumed NOT Locked and Cocked meant:

1)a round in the chamber
2) hammer at "half-cock"
3) safety(s) on.

As alway, thanks for your expert feed-back.

[gumpokc]

There are several ways to bring a 1911 style pistol into play from a unloaded chamber, holstered weapon.

Most are simply variations of each other, modified for personal pref, but here is mine.
( this is termed as if in a real danger situation)

weapon in holster, magazine loaded, but no round in chamber.

release holster restraining strap

grab and draw pistol with strong hand, keep the pistol close to the side of your body, while reaching for the slide with your offhand.

grab the slide with your offhand firmly, then _while holding your offhand in position_ shove your stronghand forward, slide will go to rear, when it stops release it, pistol is now ready to go.

(you now have your offhand partially across your body, if your attacker is closing on you, this puts your offhand into place for a backhand strike, or elbow strike, while providing some minor protection (every little bit helps) to your shooting hand/torso.)

You can now move your offhand to support the stronghand.

I was told this method helps in that if you work the slide with the offhand, the way your muscles work actually twists you away from your target, whereas usign the offhand to hold the slide, and stronghand to push, helps you align to your target faster since it is a more "natural" movement and allows your hand to come straightup to your line of sight.

I am sure others have their own ways that work quite well.

In a nondanger situation, you of course follow all normal saftey procedures.

remove pistol from holster, lock slide to rear, check condition of chamber, check magazine, clear the area, insert magazine, clear area, release slide, place weapon on safe.

[Adam Helmer]

Contenderizer,

You are correct in your definition of "Locked & Cocked." Many folks are not confortable with that mode of carry. I usually carry my 1911 chamber empty and cycle the slide to charge the piece if I think there will be a need to employ the piece in the immediate future. I put the thumb safety on and go about my business. There are thumb break holsters that have the retaining strap go over the rear of the slide and it is between the firing pin and cocked hammer. Those holsters give peace of mind to some folks.

The half-cock notch on the Colt 1911 hammer is not a safety. In that mode you cannot engage the thumb safety and if you drop the pistol on the hammer, you could break off the sear tip and the gun could fire.

I have know folks to carry the 1911 chamber loaded and hammer down on the live round. It works because the 1911 has an inertial firing pin and is shorter than the distance from hammer face to primer. To employ the gun, they cock the hammer and shoot. Again, do not drop the gun on the hammer because the gun could fire, if you use this mode of carry. Also, watch the muzzle when you let the hammer all the way down on a chambered round!

Adam

[Contenderizer]

Adam:

You stated:

The half-cock notch on the Colt 1911 hammer is not a safety. In that mode you cannot engage the thumb safety

Odd, thought me, at half-cock I am sure my safety moves upwards, and, when the hammer is fully cocked, the safety then drops to the fire position. WRONG! After more careful examination I discovered that while the safety does move up, it does not go into the full safe position. Thanks for that info; I told you I was a revolver guy! I would like to point out that at half-cock - and with the grip safety depressed - the hammer will not fall when the trigger is pulled. This gives me some level of comfort.

I have know folks to carry the 1911 chamber loaded and hammer down on the live round. It works because the 1911 has an inertial firing pin and is shorter than the distance from hammer face to primer. To employ the gun, they cock the hammer and shoot.

This seems really strange to me. If the firearm is safe to carry hammer down, why is the half-cock feature there? With the hammer down or at half-cock the thumb safety is useless. If there is a round in the chamber, me thinks I would rather carry at half-cock ... given the options.

Which brings me back to my original question. Is there a preferred method of draw with the firearm at half-cock (i.e. cock with the strong hand thumb; cock with the weak hand while raising the gun, similar to Cowboy Action, etc.)?

[Adam Helmer]

Contenderizer,

Good to hear from you. I am glad you are getting to know the Colt 1911 a bit better. Since you seem set on carrying your 1911 at half-cock with a round in the chamber, here are my thoughts.

First, when you charge your pistol and decide to let the hammer down to half-cock WATCH THE MUZZLE! I put my weak hand thumb over the firing pin when the strong hand squeezes the grip safety and pulls the trigger! The hammer will hit my thumb and NOT the firing pin. Practice this maneuver with an unloaded pistol a dozen times before you go LIVE. It is impossible to use the strong hand to grip the grip safety and also hang onto the hammer; try it and see for yourself. Some folks try to hang onto the descending hammer with the weak thumb while pulling the trigger with the strong hand to lower the hammer. If it works, ok. When it does not work and the hammer falls without restraint, folks replace furriture, door frames, etc. I suggest the weak thumb shielding the hammer for better security. Once the hammer hits the thumb, LET off the trigger and ease the hammer down to half cock.

When you draw from the holster with a chamber loaded half cocked 1911, keep the muzzle down range, single action cock the hammer with the strong thumb and go for it. Hope this helps.

Adam

[Jack]

To my knowledge, the purpose of the half cock notch on a 1911 is to prevent the hammer from falling all the way, should the hammer be bounced out of the full cock notch when someone hits the slide release and lets the slide slam forward.
You sometimes see this happen on 1911's that have had trigger jobs and have light triggers. The term 'following' is often used to describe the hammer 'following' the slide forward.
An easy way to prevent following is to hold the hammer back with the weak hand when you thumb the slide release and let the slide go forward. Another easy way to prevent following is to have someone competent do your trigger jobs.
Just to throw some gasoline on the fire here, I've heard many people worry about carrying a 1911 cocked and locked. In that condition, the hammer's cocked, and you depend on the thumb safety and grip safety for preventing accidents.
Now, a number of striker fired autos are typically carried with a loaded round in the chamber and the safety on. A striker fired auto is cocked all the time, and when you carry that type auto with a round in the chamber (as is almost universally done) you depend on the safety to prevent accidents- ONE safety.
The 1911 has 2 safeties in the cocked and locked scenario.
Now, call me a skeptic, but, which is safer? Might it be that since you can SEE a 1911 hammer, you worry, but since you can't SEE a striker, you don't? Seems to me that 2 safeties are better than 1.
OK, guys, I'm ready- fire away

[Adam Helmer]

Jack,

Thanks for your sage observations, as usual.

I teach the weak thumb blocking the hammer fall in my revolver classes as well as auto pistol classes. Letting the hammer down to half cock on a 1911 is similiar in many ways to letting the cocked hammer down on a single or double action revolver. The key is to get off the trigger as soon as the hammer releases and ease the hammer forward.

I get a laugh at the cowboy movies when some gunslinger cocks his revolver and points the gun at a person. When the gunman decides he will not shoot, they ALWAYS KEEP the muzzle on the target's midsection when they release the hammer and let it go forward!!! Common sense dictates that one points the muzzle AWAY from a person before letting the hammer down.

One final story: Back 20 years ago in a rural NH town a woman heard a suspicious noise after dark in her backyard. She was alone, so she grabbed her DA revolver and flashlight and headed for the backyard and she cocked the revolver as she exited the house. She found no intruder so she went back to her kitchen. She had had some firearms training from her husband and had fired her S&W at the range, but had NEVER let the hammer down on a loaded pistol. She could not open the cylinder with the Smith cocked. After some deliberation, she lowered the hammer by shooting her trash can! The nearby neighbors called the cops and the SWAT team responded because the woman had never let the hammer down on a loaded gun.

That lady was the first person to sign up the next month when my gun club offered a firearms instruction course.

Adam

[RagingBullPa]

here in ne pa many of are ranges are undergoing rebuilding and renovations, too much lead sad shape of the backstops , benches and surrounding areas, hopefully they will be ready soon , they sure dragged their feet on this issue of course with no guns Ed Rendell as our govenor its a wonder we still have a hunting seasonleft , let alone areas to safely shoot our firearms, , seems as though the beloved Game Commission has forgot about NE Pa, when it comes to even hunter training courses, i was just on the web site, i really would like to know where all our dollars are spent to enhance our hunting, probably in some politicians pocket and it sucks, no wonder hunters have declined here in Pa , with the crap they have to put up with , also the same with fishing license fees keep going up quality management just goes down the pooper