Detroit vs US Senate

[Ol` Joe]

Originally posted by Larryjk
The Pres of the UAW was on the news tonight and was asked if it was necessary to have 42 days of vacation along with 17 paid holidays since the pay was between $42 and $71/hr? He said they were always being asked to sacrafice. Looking at those figures, I think there is serious room for sacrafice. Some sacrafice might beat the hell out of no pay at all.

Actually the senior workers get 4 weeks (20 days) vacation and 5 sick days. The 17 working days include the week of July 4th which is mandantory time off and is deducted from the employees 20 days of vacation time.

The $71 dollars/hr is also a bit high, I think the last figure I saw was an "average" of around $40+. They include retirement costs, unemploment insurance, social security costs, (remember the companies pay 1/2 of your SS. For every dollar taken from your check they add one to the payment the government gets) on top of health and life insurances. The last contract eliminated the high wages of anyone not concidered a "core" worker to $14/hr and caps it at $18/hr max. New hires will not get traditional retirement (401K only), health insurance is now a HMO only, deductables for health insurance are taken from both workers pay and retirees, past and future, on top of deductions that have been expanded on some services (office calls, medicines, X-rays, ect) that have always existed. Full benefits for a couple contracts have been fed to the newer employees a piece at a time over 3-5 yrs.
The companies are and have been useing "temps" agreed to in the previous contract @$14/hr with no benefits, vacation or sick time. I personally know people who have worked 3+ yrs with out a day off for fear of loseing their job due to this. They are still temps and if managment has their way will be in the future. This is all in effect today, with more coming in 2011 at the contracts expiration. I doubt GM has much more the 50% of the work force earning the old avg of $26/hr (a cost of living bonus is added to this, but I think they are gone now too or have been froze)

Toyota, Honda, ect, do pay less overall. Toyota pays as much or more per/hr in the workers pay check on avg then GM but less in other costs. High visible wages help keep the unions at bay. They don`t have the retirees, our auto companies do to pay, their workers are younger which keeps health care costs down, and they don`t pay health care at home. Their governments take care of that. BTW you might notice too, the southern states have gave very large tax exemptions to all of the off shore manufactures that are not offered to the existing US companies too. Ford might concider building a plant at home and keeping Americans working if they didn`t have to pay the taxes our government wants on their new factories

The Unions and auto companies are not blameless. They have made errors. The workers have been well paid, and have a decent retirement if older. The news media though has looked at the domestic auto industry like they do at gun manufacures, and workers like gun owners. Stretch the truth or hint at faults when possible.
The Government too is iffy IMO. They haven`t been collecting taxes as long as Ford has built cars, and their 6 trillion in the hole and questioning the auto makers business plans? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black...........

" The steel needed to make these items in an auto plant if were needed like past years use to come from places like Pittsburgh...the 'steel city'....well now here we go again in the destruction of America from within. Not only did they close down the major steel mills here around this area, but to make sure they never fire them up again if need to make tanks, guns or what ever, they tore them to the ground...naked dirt there now..I drive past these miles and miles of fenced in dirt..so, if we need to turn over the auto plants again, where we going to make the steel needed?...our ship is already sunk"

Skeeter, My dad in the early `60s complained the US governmant had gave Japan our old ships, tanks, ect after the war, and they were melting it down and selling it back to us. He was sure it was going to bite us then, and it did. The Jap goverment subsidized steel production for years, under cutting American steel. Russia did the same for a while. It seems we are are our worst enemy. We protect our shores from enemy armies but sell it to their people. If China ever cuts off sales to the states we`re SOL...

JMHO, if ya don`t agree, go ahead and flame away. It won`t change a thing in what`s passed..... or to come...

[fabsroman]

If China cuts off sales to the US, it just means we will probably have to wait for the goods to be built elsewhere, and we might have to pay a little more for them. Supply and demand is what it is about.

Now, China would be SOL if it stopped sending goods this way. China is already struggling right now because the US is in this recession and Americans aren't buying Chinese goods, or any other goods for that matter.

[Larryjk]

Ol' Joe, Sorry if it sounded like I was flaming. There is plenty of blame to go around. The figures I quoted were from the evening news as given by Katie Couric on ABC. I thought she would do a better job of presenting that issue fairly!

[skeet]

I really don't mind giving loan guarantees to the auto companies but not an outright payment from the gummit to them. And if we give loan guarantees then the auto companies ought to show a new business plan...and be made to stick with it. Bizness as usual just ain't gonna cut it..and everyone here knows that, I think. The loan guarantees from Freddie and fannie came back to haunt us because it remained bizness as unusual with them. NO oversight means that there will be no changes for the good. We are on the verge of going to a new currency in this country... to the Amero...or some such bull. We should be responsible for our own debt..not the debts of other countries......or businesses. And y'all are right about the steel industry...and now Obama wants to do the same with the coal industry...and the United Mine Workers supported the useless scumbag. Just like our illustrious union leaders supported the NAFTA plan. Did away with more than a million UNION jobs almost immediately...WTH is up with the unions. They always support the democraps that do terrible things to the American(US) worker. I don't understand that..other than the fact that unions are in some sense socialistic in their policies