"Perfect" deer caliber/rifle...lol...... - Page 3

Andy L · #31 03-02-2005, 08:30 AM

Gatorbum,
Bet you had no idea your tounge in cheek intro was gonna fire this back up, this much, did you?

I was sitting here giggling ever since you wrote the first post, waiting for model 70 to pipe up. We all know there are many deer rifles that could be considered perfect. None will kill one deader than the next. From the 243 to the big mag boomers. They all work great. Some will do better than others on paper, but in the field, your gonna get the same results with a wide range of rifles/bullets combos, if you do your job.

Thanks for bringing this back up. Its entertaining anyway. Ill say it again, the 270 is a good rifle if you can only afford one gun (but if thats the case, your still better off with a 30-06). But the 25-06 out performs it with lighter bullets and less recoil and the 280 outperforms it with heavier bullets and about the same recoil. (However in the ones that I have shot, the 280 mountain rifle had less recoil than the 270 bdls I shot.)

True Story.

Andy

Hi Ball · #32 03-02-2005, 10:23 AM

Allen.........I must agree that there are many a fine caliber that one could tag as the "perfect" whitetail deer gun. I myself have used most of those calibers over the years and can varify that bigger is NOT BETTER when it comes to whitetail deer hunting.

I remember the first time (1963) I used a 300 Win mag (Belgium Browning Rifle) with a 150 grain bullet out the barrel. Why that bullet hitting the shoulder, darn near took that deer in half at 40 yards! I can put that 7mm mag into the same catagory up close using the 140 grain bullet.

Then their was the time I had to try out my very first .458 big bore in a Express gun. Boy it sure taught me a lesson that day, hitting a buck in the chest with a 500 grain bullet at less than 50 yards. Never be resting up against a tree and pull the trigger on that cannon ever again! The bullet hit the bucks spine and completely blew up the rear half of the bones and fragments and bone came out the back the size of a grapfruit. There was shreded bone driven into both hindquarters. Such power was awsome to wittness. Truly a waste of good venison........We live and hopefully learn! The year was 1964.

The last 10 years or so I have come to appreciate the finer things in life and one of those on my list is the 1/4 bore 25-06~!
Oh I do love em all I suppose, from the Triple Deuce to the 500 Nitro Express in the vault. They all have a purpose to serve but if I had to make a choice (Heaven Forbid!!!) of all those I have aquired over the years, I would not want to be without my 25-06 model 70 for the small stuff and the .416 mag model 70 for those things that bite back.

Cossack · #33 03-02-2005, 10:49 AM

I've never been able to decide on just one piece.
Have loaded 25/06. Great. Like a fool I sold that Plane Jane shooter for something prettier. Now use 260 (hand rifle) 7/08, 284 and 280, plus play with a bunch of 'cats and handguns (there's a range out back as well).
The 7/08 is a Kimber Montana. It weights 6.5 lbs trailside and is a dream to carry and shoot. My hunt load is a 140 Barnes TSX at 2950 fps. AWSOME. Accurate, lethal and easy on the shoulder.

But, I like what I see in the new CZ Model 3. An updated version of the pre '64 Win, Model 70, with better safety features and prettier wood. Available in the Win short mags (270, 7mm and 300) only, at this time....and made in the USA. There are half dozen different makes of rifles in my safe, the CZ I own is by far the best buy.

Rocky Raab · #34 03-02-2005, 05:11 PM

I believe I can say without fear of contradiction that a .270 is the absolute best rifle in Model 70's safe.

Disclaimer: That may not be true for anybody's esle's safe. Your mileage may vary. Not to be used while operating heavy machinery. Batteries not included.

And if that doesn't make everybody around the campfire smile and slap their leg, I quit.

Skinny Shooter · #35 03-02-2005, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gatorbum
MINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm new here and was reading back through some of your posts. I love you guys!!

Heh, heh, heh..........Closeknit, able to argue, agree to disagree...My kind of folks.

Just so you'll know, I'm mostly a bowhunter though my rifle shooting experience is extreme. My confidence gun is a semi-custom built Whitworth Mauser in 25/06. When it fires, something dies. Period.

At least you didn't say 300 Win Mag or a 270...

Here is the perfect deer getter.
A 75cal Brown Bess Musket

Mild recoil. Minimal muzzle blast.
Good to 50 yards. What more could you want?

model 70 · #36 03-02-2005, 07:32 PM

the .270 pulls ahead of the 25-06 when it comes to heavier bullet weights.

fabsroman · #37 03-02-2005, 09:07 PM

Skinny,

I'm the one that usually chimes in with the .300 Win Mag along with Andy L sometimes. We can always count on Model 70 for the .270, and we can count on Evan03 for the .25-06. Looks like Gatorbum might be another .25-06 fan to help Evan03 out, not the Evan03 needs much help.

Honestly, I have been trying to avoid this thread because this is such a subjective argument that there is no right or wrong answer. Kind of like arguing about which color is better, red or blue.

Personally, I would prefer a bazooka or a howizter where I live so that I could kill entire herds with a single shot. Artillery would be really nice too.

Andy L · #38 03-02-2005, 10:44 PM

No kiddin mod 70?? Mabye thats why 120gr is the heavy for the quarter bore....

But the 280 kicks the 270 bad with heavier bullets.....

And, the 300 Win, as Fabs said, is even better yet. Actually, I dont know why I have parked my 300 Win. I got it when I graduated high school in 1985. It has killed a train load of deer. With a factory 150gr Core Lokt, I have never had a rifle perform any better, or as good, as that rig. And the recoil thing is not all that bad either. Its not much worse than any 270, 280 or 30-06 I have ever shot, some more, but not noticable when shooting at game.

You know what, Im not too sure thats not the perfect all around big game rifle period. Deer, pronghorn, elk, moose, bear, it will do it all. And talk about bullet selection.

Thanks Fabs. I may bring the ole 300 out of the safe this year, sight it in and use it. Its been a while and thats a shame to semi-retire such a performer. Flat shootin and hard hittin.

Andy

Hi Ball · #39 03-03-2005, 12:23 AM

Andy L.......In the 60's I relied on the 222 for the small critters around the country side and soon set aside my .270 and 30-06 for a new love. A new Belgium Browning Safari 300 win mag for the big game animals of my future hunts, as that lastled for the next 20 or so years. I was never disappointed hunting with that rifle, once I learned it's true purpose and that was long range work for them most part on mule deer, elk, moose and bears alike.

Some time later in the early 80's, I got an itch and just had to scratch er some. So I stopped by the local gun store and brought home another model 70. Only this time it was a medium bore in the form of the .338 win mag. Now that is not to say that during those couple of decades, also picked up a bakers dozen or so of calibers up and down the spectrum. Including a half dozen wildcats as well.

Now just before the next century came onto the scene, I noticed a turning of events that lead me to believe, that the person who stated history has a way of repeating itself, certainly knew what he was talking about. I had already gone full circle in the line of rifle caliber's! I never gave much thought to such a happening as a young hunter. However, I can only say it has been a joyous experience to be quite frank. Shooting a 270, 25-06, 6.5, 30-06 or the Triple Deuce, still puts a smile on my face.

earschplitinloudenboomer · #40 03-03-2005, 12:55 AM

Just ran the diagnostics on my Mod 98, 7X57...it is YK3 compliant!

Evan03 · #41 03-03-2005, 02:18 AM

mod70

the 257 cals do have an advantage over the .277s, id say the recoil being less is big advantage, atleast for us wussy guys like me.

i talk the 257s up real big, because i like them alot. but when you get down to the nitty gritty id tell you how ive only taken game with my 270win in 8 years if hunting, thats about 7 bucks and 1 bull elk. all were dropped with the little 270. i cant break away from the 277 cals and thats where my infatuation with the 270wsm came from.

Evan03 · #42 03-03-2005, 02:41 AM

hi ball

from an earlier post i gatherd that your working with the 25wsm.

id like to hear alittle more on it. what rifle the barrel who did your smith work, how 100gr pills perform, or even 76-85 if youve tired them.

i have the 270wsm and would like to get tube reamed 25wsm, with its parrent case being the 270wsm, this would make reloading easier on me. id have the throat cut so that i can simply kneck down the bullets and stuff them in the chamber and have fun, im not much for relaoding and id hate to have to trimm cases after bumping 270wsm cases through the 25wsm die,

why did you go with the 25300wsm.

the rifle id like to build the 25wsm on is the #1 standerd, im sure some day i may try abd realy want to but for rigth now the 2506 is keepin me happy enough.

id love to hear more on the rifle.

Evan

Hi Ball · #43 03-03-2005, 10:29 AM

Evans-03.......Actually I was wanting a for long range shooting rifle for hunting. My 300 Ultra mag was causing me a neck problem shooting it from the bench (even with sandbags and recoil pad) when my itch started up again for something that wouldn't be a bore around the campfire, let me cut that recoil in half and still have lots of sip to penetrate big game animals like elk or mule deer at 400 yards.

I had read years ago of how the Swedes used the 6.5 x 55 for their harvesting of moose and deer. I just upped the anti with a little help from a case that holds a lot more powder. My accuracy at 800 yards with this rifle, shooting 140 grain Sierra bullets has been very good, considering I was shooting with an arm that had been just operated on for nerve damage. I can keep 5 shots within a 11 inch area at 800 yards!

I might could shrink that to 9 ir naybe 8 with more practice I suppose. I won't be shooting passed that 400 yard marker these days anyway most likely. If the gun were heavier (heaven forbid) It would do much better I am positive. If my eyes and are were perfect, I am sure the results would be trim a little more. However, so much is life during it's span understand. I also did not want a 12 pound bench gun for hunting. I have one of those in a 6mm Remington and it is no fun to carry all day. Both those wildcats have custom stainless fluted barrels. The 1/4 bore is 25 inches and the 6.5 is 26 inches in length. They both have custom made stocks as well, with Leupold 4 x 12 on the 1/4 bore and a Leupold 3 x 9 on the 6.5/270WSM.

I went on a somewhat quick elk hunt last year and took my 25-06 along for the ride. I did managed to kill a bull elk with the rifle, a model 70 pre-64. However, I long for something better suited as a big game hunting caliber in my hands next time out. My brother in law used to tell me years ago, you just don't need all that "smackin power" to kill elk and mule deer. He used a .243 Winchester in his day by the way!

I was actually after a 270WSM but never could get my hands on the rifle (model 70 of course) so I took the 300WSM instead that was on hand at the gun store. Now with this new acquisition, I proceeded to build a wildcat in short, the 25-06. I thought this would work out as my rifle, using 120 grain bullets. However, it just doesn't do what the other wildcat (6.5/270WSM) will as far as penetration goes into 50lb clay blocks. Nor does it have it's long range ballistic abilities and energy down range on big game animals like elk or moose.

The 6.5/270WSM is much better suited for big critters, using the 140 grain bullet with a SD or .287 and especially with a 160 grain bullet with it's SD of .328 (great for moose or elk in the dark timber) that is available today from Hornady. Shooting long range is also going to put it at the top of the list between the 2 wildcats.

I myself would never hunt elk again with the 25-06........It is just NOT big enough in my humble opinion and hunters must give up those shots passed 200 yards for sure. Now even though the wildcat 25/300WSM has more sip, I would also have to say, it is NO elk cartridge simple put. One should also use a premium bullet as well, so as to stay together after contact of animal tissue.

I reckon shooting those Barnes copper bullets in the 100 grain (if your barrel likes em) would be the ticket to all your antelope and mule deer needs out west. I myself still favor a bullet like the Nosler Partition in the 120 grain for penetration sake. It does the best of both worlds. SD at .260

However if you really want a wildcat to shoot long range and hunt big game, look no further than a 6.5/270WSM or use the 300WSM case as well, to get the job done in spades!

CanWoodsman · #44 03-03-2005, 06:53 PM

Add me to the 25.06 fan group. I don't think there are many deer I shot with one who would argue. On second thought they can't argue there dead.

model 70 · #45 03-04-2005, 08:19 AM

yup, the .280 is available in heavier bullet weights than the .270 but why would you need anything over 150gr. or deer hunting?