We are less than 5% of the muzzleloader hunters?

[larryours]

I don't have anything against anyone that hunts, but don't hunt with a stainless steel in-line, scoped, with synthetic stock and brag that you killed it with a "primitive" muzzleloader. Just say I killed it with an in-line.

In other words, don't pee up my back and try and tell me it's raining. Just hunt in regular deer rifle season, or if you live in W.V. muzzleloader season.

I love to hunt probably as much/or more as anyone, when I was younger, I wasn't hunting unless I killed something. As you get older, you yungun's will understand what I'm talking about. I love to be outdoors, and if I see game where I could kill, but pass up, and take an animal now and again for the meat that I love to eat, I give thanks to the Good Lord for what he provides and the time he allows me to have in the outdoors. Just be happy to be alive and to hunt.........

[Skyline]

Sorry, your reasoning about this 'traditional' versus 'in-line' is not logical.

Stainless steel, synthetic stock, scopes.....who cares.

So somehow the bullet coming out of a stainless barrel, pushed by a 100 grains of pyrodex is not ethical because the barrel isn't blued steel and the handle on it isn't birdseye maple?

that is a load of BS my friends!

As I said before.....it is the same arguement that I hear from archers........somehow traditional long bows are OK, but if you use a compound bow that isn't 'pure' enough for the people with the stick bows......maybe we should start having long bow seasons and then a compound bow season. That way we wouldn't have those nasty compound users out competing with the long bows.

I won't say another word on this subject but it is bunk and your reasoning is strictly bias. There is no logic to the position some of you guys are taking other than "we don't like it!"

["yote"]

We may be less than 5% but we have the most fun !!!!

Lyman great Plains .54 cal round ball shooter !!!

[Adam Helmer]

Skyline,

You may think the difference between traditional and inlines, as larryours pointed out, is "illogical" and you are entitled to your opinion, so long as you know it is merely your opinion.

Here in PA, it is LAW that the only legal "Traditional arm" for deer season from December 26, 2005 until mid-January is a Flintlock, single barrel, .44 caliber or larger bore, iron sights only. Apparently the PA Game Commission sees a difference between a scoped inline that looks like a Remington 700 bolt gun and a flintlock with iron sights. You have every right to think it is a "load of BS" if some people ascertain a difference between the two arms. That is not the point of my original post. I am saying traditional arms are more than "5% "of the hunters afield.

I maintain that scoped inlines belong in our two-week rifle deer season along with other scoped rifles. If you do not think traditional arms are fairer to the deer resource, in the traditional season, due to the limitations they have, then you are free to have your opinion. I have fired inlines with scopes and they are much more deadly than an iron-sighted .50 caliber Hawken flinter. If you deem that is "strictly bias" on my part, please come with me to my range and be convinced of facts. Perhaps none are so blind as those who will not see. I do not hate inlines, I am saying the Traditional Season has traditions, AND limitations, modern scoped muzzleloaders negate. Merry Christmas.

Adam

[carl]

I have to agree with Adam and larryours.I have an inline and a "traditional". Here in Ohio I can use them in Deer gun season and Primitive season. Regular Gun season is a week long and this year muzzleloader is 4 days. I would love to see them open a "Flintlock only" for a few days. THERE is a BIG difference in bagging a deer with an inline vs a traditional.
Merry Christmas !!!!!!!!

[Skyline]

And in a strictly 'traditional arm' season....fair enough. In PA yes you have that special season but they are rare elsewhere. The majority of locations are 'muzzleloader' seasons.

I still hear all the complaining in those 'muzzleloader' seasons by the traditional users that scopes and in-lines shouldn't be allowed.

My point is...just be carefully how loudly you decry others and what they use during the various seasons.

I have shot 'traditional' blackpowder muzzleloaders for many years and I have shot some of the in-lines in more recent years.
Yes, equipped with a scope, they do extend your killing range. But many who are not familiar with them seem to think they are 200 yard plus killers....rarely! Most hunters soon come to realize that they are still, at best, a 100 to 150 yard weapon.....and as I said, I know guys that are really proficient with flintlocks that routinely turn in good groups at 100 yards.....because they practice and really know their rifle. They also don't own $100 do it yourself kit rifles....they are well made weapons.

There are many sides to this arguement. Bottom line is when I go out in the woods during a muzzleloader season, and I am packing a flintlock, I could care less if the next guy has an in-line. I will still get my deer and if he/she using an in-line helps to get more people interested I am all for it. With time, they may develop an interest in the more 'traditional' weapons.

I just get very tired of hunters, who should be sticking together like flies to you know what.....spend so much time bashing each other because of personal beliefs about whether bears should be hunted in spring, trophy hunting is bad, compound bows are too advanced and, oh yes of course, in-lines place traditional muzzleloader hunters at such a terrific disadvantage.

Nothing like being your own worst enemies in a day and age when everyone is out to take your hunting and shooting rights away.

And your right it is only my opinion....................

[Adam Helmer]

Skyline,

Thanks for your reply. Maybe things are a bit different here in PA; for example, the crossbow folks must buy a Muzzleloader license and may only hunt the ML season.

Today was the opener for the PA "Primitive ML" season. I hunted all morning in a light rain with a flinter .54 Hawken. I came home at noon and dumped my wet priming. Now, Mr. Skyline, if I had used an inline with 209 priming, just what would rain or sleet have meant to my hunt? If you can see that the elements have an effect on "Primitive Hunters" not visited to inline hunters, then you are on your way to wisdom. Be well.

Adam

[Skyline]

Nothing miraculous about that Adam.....hazards of the design and circumstance. As I said I began using traditional muzzleloaders decades ago.......I have also seen in-line actions fill with water in torrential downpours during hunts in the NWT, despite covering the actions, and then refusing to fire at the end of the day, with 209 ignition. I have seen bolt-actions and lever-actions freeze-up in -30 and -50 F. usually because the owners neglected proper cold weather maintenance....another because a horses body temperature made a 'cold' rifle sweat in a scabbard and then freeze as it cooled.

Have had a wet pan on a flinter a time or two myself hunting in the pouring rain in British Columbia for blacktail deer.....and that is just the way it goes sometimes....................... that's hunting. Has nothing to do with wisdom or the point I am trying to make.

Ah well, this is kind of like beating your head against the wall, it feels good when you stop. Take care all......oh and keep your powder dry!

[quigleysharps4570]

Originally posted by Skyline
I won't say another word on this subject

[larryours]

Skyline, Nobody is talking about ethical, just traditional.
As long as you take an animal quick, without suffering,thats ethical, it doesn't matter what weapon you use.
Traditional hunting, is what I prefer. Sidelock of flintlock

Tradition/ Traditional defined: "handing down of opinions, practices from generation to generation; custom"

So if you keep your opinion and in-line, in a 100 years or so, after a few generations, your in-line will be traditional.

Enough said ! Skyline have a Happy New Year

[fouserchris]

Hey all of you are forgeting something .especially the peaple downing inlines . i have 2 side hammers 1 inline 1 of the side hammers is flintlock with sinthotic stock .i got my percussion 1st. my inline 2nd and my flint last .in ohio where i am i can use any of the above during any firearm season . i have even been known to use the flint during shotgun season .if inlines get youngsters into the field during deerseason then more power to the inline. i choose which weapon i am most comfortable with where i am hunting .150 yrd shot i use inline. drives i use percution .stand and still hunting i use flint.I dont really think it matters what you use as long as you can make it hit the target and are enjoying the hunting and shooting experiance .i can out shoot most of my inline only friends with all three guns their choice on gun my choice on range.i will still use all 3 frontstuffers until somebody prys them from my cold dead hands or i cant see to aim .