The .270win:The perfect deer cartridge?

[L. Cooper]

A lot of information in this thread that means little. The only way to compare performance between rounds is to make those comparisons with bullets of equal Ballistic Coefficient and equal sectional densities. The weight of the projectile is almost irrelevant to how it performs down range. It's velocity, shape (B.C.), and sectional density will determine its trajectory and retained energy.

Compare the 130 grain .270 to a 200 grain .30 caliber bullet with a B.C. of over .300 at about 2950 fps from a .300 Win and see what the numbers prove downrange.

Such comparisons must be "fair" in a true scientific sense if they are to have real meaning. Andecdotal evidence from individual cases in the field will be interesting but not very important as far as ballistic facts are concerned.

By the way, anyone want to argue about how many angels can sit on the head of a pin? The differences between the .270, .280, and .30-06 on deer are as impossible and irrelevant to define.

[model 70]

To the last part of that post, I'm talking about real world stuff. Sometimes hunters forget their shells at home. Drop into any local store and you will likely find .270 but not .280 stuff.

The '06 may have a couple hundred more foot lbs. of energy than the .270 but do you think the deer cares? Now, the .270 has maybe an inch or two less drop at long range. It could mean the difference between a complete miss and a killing spine shot. That matters.

[fabsroman]

You can also look at it the other way. If the person shooting the rifle has no idea about drop and range finding, you can either have a complete miss below the stomach with a .30-06 or a gut shot with a .270 Win.

[L. Cooper]

While it may be true that .270 ammunition is more available than .280, that fact in no way makes the .270 a more perfect deer cartridge, which I thought was the topic.

If some way could be devised that you were forced to spend the rest of your life shooting a round that you could not identify in any way except by observing the results on paper and animal targets, you would be very hard pressed to tell whether you were shooting the .270, .280 or .30-06.

I will stick with my original contention that there is no PRACTICAL difference between them all when it comes ot shooting deer. Any "proof" that one is superior to the others on deer is a just a paper chase. Note the "on deer" as a qualification. On bigger animals and smaller ones there are differences that can occasionally matter.

[model 70]

Ok, forget ballistics. Real world stuff here folks. The fact that hunters forget stuff and the fact that in a pinch, you can buy .270 almost anywhere make it more ideal for deer hunting. True, the .280 may be able to do what the .270 can but is not readily available everywhere. This is something alot of folks must do when choosing a one and only deer rifle.


Also, if a hunter does not know what his gun can do, they shouldn't be taking the shot.

[skeet]

Sure it's perfect for deer as are the others that are listed. Hell A 45-70 is perfect for deer in the right scenario. The point of the whole argument is being missed here. The 270 is a perfect cartridge for deer. That is what it was developed for in the first place. Is it the only perfect cartridge for deer?? No.... Of course not. It works for deer at short range and at long. It's one of those cartridges that just seems to outperform it's actual ballistics. The whole point here is that the cartridge is fairly easy to learn to shoot well because it doesn't recoil excessively. It is flat shooting at pretty long range and ammo is easy to find...anywhere deer are hunted with rifles. Now guys, don't get all het up over this post. It isn't the only perfect round but it is one of the Most perfect. So is the 30-30 for the guy that knows his ranges he can shoot. The 300 Mags are ...well.. perfect for some also. BUT for the average shooter buying his ammo it is one of the best. You all do have to realize that the average hunter probably isn't the best shot in the world...can't take too much recoil and isn't a reloader anyway. I figure that Andy and most of the people who have posted here are above average in their hunting abilities. So be it. BUT the mags aren't easy to shoot and harder to learn to shoot well takes them out of the PERFECT for the average shooter. Heck...I bought a Weatherby 300 Mag to hunt moose with in Alaska. A friend up there still has my rifle and it must be a perfect moose rifle...he kills his every year with it...so it must be perfect for moose. Personally I liked the 338 Win mag for moose a whole lot better. The 338 was fairly easy for me to shoot. The 300 Weatherby??? Hated the darn thing. Kicked violently and was really loud. Couldn't shoot it for squat. I can't sell it cause it was an early Weatherby and worth a good bit. Guess what I'm trying to say is that the PERFECT deer rifle is the one you can shoot the BEST!!!! A very UNIQUE idea isn't it??

[Andy L]

and, they shouldnt forget their ammo at home......

and, if they do, 30-06 is easier to find than 270......

and, the 270 cant do anything the 30-06 cant do.....

and, a bad hit with a 30-06, 180gr has a better chance of being found than a bad hit 270, 130gr, none a good chance, but a better one.....

i see a pattern here, do you?????

[fabsroman]

Okay, I now have a headache.

Yes, in a perfect world, the shooter would know his rifle in and out and always make the perfect shot with the perfect deer rifle. Oh yeah, the world isn't perfect.

If it were, we wouldn't have to worry about somebody misjudging distance or the ability of the gun. We would never have to worry about a complete miss because all the shots would be spine or neck shots that are instantaneously deadly.

I agree with one other post. Trying to argue about which deer cartridge is the best is ridiculous. The only question is whether or not the cartridge can get the job done for the person shooting the gun.

[Boyd Heaton]

Since Fabs brought my name up I will add my 2cents ......We have made clean one shot kills on deer at 500 yards with a 270win.Shooting the 140gr BT...That is as far I will will take it tho.It does not drop below 1000ftlbs on energy until about 650 yards.I like to stay as close to that as I can .As for being the perfect cart for all situations,no it is'nt...But for the inside 500 yard guys its real close..Shot placement to me is job one.And yes there are people out there that can make one shot clean kills at 500 yards and beyond in any wind short of a hurricane.Just to add something here..My LR gun is a 300 Ultramag shooting a (Rocky will like this) 210gr Match style bullet with a b.c. of .665 at 3350fps has 2800ftlbs of energy at 650 yards and does'nt drop below 1000 til 1500 yards...My 270 is my go to gun when I'm out walking.And I know it will do the job I ask of it when the time comes

[model 70]

Originally posted by Andy L
and, a bad hit with a 30-06, 180gr has a better chance of being found than a bad hit 270, 130gr, none a good chance, but a better one.....

I completely disagree.

[Jack]

This is getting quite ridiculous...
There's likely not a 'perfect' deer rifle, as so many others have said. The terrain where you use the rifle has a whole LOT to do with what you think is 'best'.

"and, they shouldnt forget their ammo at home......
and, if they do, 30-06 is easier to find than 270......"
I doubt that, and either 270 or 30-06 will be easier to find at the corner store than someone's (name withheld) favorite 30 caliber magnum....

"and, a bad hit with a 30-06, 180gr has a better chance of being found than a bad hit 270, 130gr, none a good chance, but a better one....."
I doubt that, too. Based upon my observations (and I don't own a 270)

We all have our favorite cartridges- based on what's worked well for us, or those around us we've seen using their rifles on deer.
Could we leave it at that?

[Boyd Heaton]

I'll take that in turd-turd please

[Andy L]

I completely agree. Read back and thats what I said in my first post. There is a list of perfect deer rifles. Depends on the situation and the person shooting it. Many, many are capable of the same results.

Sounds like I ruffled some feathers there. Wasnt the intent. I actually was having fun with it. Nothing heated. Just a discussion.

Gotta give you this model 70, you have a strong conviction about the 270. That probably makes it the perfect rifle in your hands for whitetails.

But its not in mine or many others who have the same conviction for a rifle capable of as much or more.......

Good Luck

Andy

[Brithunter]

Hi All,

My......My it's getting heated in here

As for me I don't have a 30.06, might do one day then again I might not. I am certainly not going out looking for one but I have seen a few BSA's chambered in that I am looking for another BSA rifle so............

One thing I don't see mentioned is the use of Hollow point HUNTING bullets. I know of a fellow up in Alaska who swears by them, uses a 115 grn HP in the 7x57 and tells how deadly it is on the Cariboo. I tried some Sierra 140 grn HP's on paper through my BSA CF2 stutzen which has a 20" barrel. Why they chambered such a short barreled rifle in 270 Win God only knows, I tend to used medium burnig rate powders and have good success with H380 and H4895 in this short barreled rifle. Anything slow like Rel 19 and Win 760 gives a BIG fireball out of the muzzle which is wasted energy

Oh this is the rifle I ws shooting the 130 grn Nosler Ballistic Tips at 600 yards with. You might be surprised to know that the 100 grn Rem PSP bullet does not group at 600 yards I tried it and found that out for the fun of it

Now I have until next September to decide on which rifle to use in the US for my next Whitetail hunting trip choices are at the moment from:-

270 Win BSA CF2 Stutzen (20" barrel)

270 Win BSA Majestic Featherweight (22" barrel)

7x57mm BSA CF2 (half stocked with 23 1/2" barrel) (used in 2003 Whitetail season)

.303 British BSA Model E (24" barrel)

.308 CZ-Brno Mod 601 (24" barrel)

7.92mm (8x57) Parker-Hale 1200 Super (24" barrel)

6.5x55 Mauser M96 (Slide Bolt with 22" barrel)

6.5x55 Sporterised Gustave Mauser (22" barrel)

9.3x75mm Husqvarna Mod 46 (24 1/2" barrel)

6.5x54MS 1903 Schoenauer (23 1/2" barrel)

30-30 Win Medwell & Perritt ( Bespoke bolt action rifle with a 25" barrel, shoots 130 Grn spitzers into less than 5/8"at 2800 fps)

Which ever one I choose will be shooting at 1" or less at 100 yards with the hunting ammunition, I would prefer less than 2" at 200 yards but my three Whitetails I shot in 2003 the furthest shot was at about 65 yards and I was expecting up to 300 yard shots A few I have still to work with to get the accuracy I am aiming at others exceed it already, I hunt with them all here and I enjoy collecting them as much as I do shooting them.

As you can see I have no favorite cartridge, the 6.5x55 Swedish has done me proud, as has the .308 win, 30-30 Win and 7x57mm. As yet I have to take game animals with the others, the .303 has taken Fox but not Deer as of yet and with the 270 Win I have had Deer in the sights but only to be the wrong Deer or sex and either not the beast to be culled or out of season due to being wrong sex. Roe are in season all year but only one sex at a time, it's Does just now

Me once I get the accuracy I want then it's how I feel at the time and where I am going which makes the choice, for Air travel I want a QD scope set up so I can carry the scope in my hand luggage. Not all are set up this way just now but I am working on that

[royinidaho]

Brithunter,

Appreciated your info, especially the details on the 30-30.

It seems that the 30-30 Win Medwell & Perritt is one of your favorites. I can sense why.

You listed 270 Winchesters with 20 and 22 inch bbls. With those barrel lengths there will probably be not much difference in performance from the 30-30.

For the ranges you seem to be shooting and the game size I'd also lean towards the 30-30 in "that" rifle.

Put a 25" bbl even better a 27" on the 270 and you have a whole different breed of cat. Velocity may increase from somewhat less than 3000 fps to something on the order of 3200 fps or maybe even more with the right barrel specifications.

With the increased BC and velocity your range will have been quite extended. But it seems not really necessary for your general shooting environment.

Where I find this increased "flatness" helps is where one is hunting in an area where the shot will be well under 100 yds and 30 minutes later the opportunity will be more like 300 yds.

BTW, if I was given the opportunty to select one of your collection for my only big game rifle it would be the 7X57.

Took my first whitetail (1958) with my first rifle (7X57mm) when the only ammo available was 175 gr factory loads. That rifle (surplus Model 93 Mauser) is still being used in Western Pennsylvania. Its been a first rifle for a lot of youngsters.