Jim Zumbo's anti-gun blog

[M.T. Pockets]

I don't want to side track this thread, or beat it up any more, but does anyone else here have a hard time figuring out Petzal over at F&S ??

I've heard him trip over his own words more than once while running back & forth over other issues.

I quit reading F&S a few years back when he couldn't answer a question without doing a poor Don Rickles imitation and insult the writer. I very seldom read any of the outdoor magazines anymore.

Where have you gone Gene Hill.......

[Lilred]

well i certainly dont wanna best a dead horse here...and i know very little about ar's or whatever the correct terms are fer em.
From what I've read in this thread...and I'm probaly missin somethin...but I'm assumin that Zumbo meant he didnt see no need for a fully automatic rifle in the woods?? or maybe he was picking on just the ar15's...the original blog I caint seem to find.

Anyway...Im uneducated about the subject so i caint argue nothin bout it..BUT (men hate it when women throw them buts in there ) as long as it is legal then it is a matter of preference what you hunt with. Any retard who prefers to hunt with a fully automatic weapon needs his head examined aside from the fact that it's illegal.
I think what Zumbo did was scratch a surface and he didnt explain himself very well..like I do alot. (No, i aint forgot that other thread where somebody called me a name...i figgered I'd better behave and not reply at all...cause it would NOT be a good thing if i did...)
I think he was probaly misunderstood and he did a poor job of explaining himself. I personally find it scheitty that he gave so many of his years and time and money to the huntin community and everybody just schiet on him. You can be mad at him or whatever...but bein 2 cents short of sendin the poor bashturd into exile is too much. Not to mention that if you hang around with a gang of bank robbers, they'll more than likely think you are one too. That is the misfortune of the ar15's. It's a uneducated assumption that classifies things together out of sheer ignorance.
I can argue that same fact about Southerners. We are all labeled as haters of African- Americans. It is an uneducated guess.

Zumbo assumed that other people in this country also make that same uneducated guess that if you see somebody walkin in the woods with an ar-15 you should duck for cover. AND THEY DO!
So did Zumbo. People should be more educated on those weapons...inlcudin myself.
Apparently God don't make men with brass b**ls anymore.

[skeet]

What Zumbo said in essence was that the government should not allow AR-15's to be used for any kind of hunting. Not full autos. He also said that they were just terrorist rifles and we really had no need for them. He likened everyone who had an AR15 to be as a terrorist. Heck, kiddo. An AR 15 is no different than any other semi auto shotgun or rifle..even the little 22 semiautos. There is no difference other than what they look like. I've had a few full auto firearms(I don't call anything firearm related as a WEAPON). A weapon is something that someone is going to USE against another person. It could be a bow..or a knife..or a gun...or even a rock. Weapon is onea them key words that the antis alway use. Why should we? You know I ain't what is known as politically correct. Just cause I consider myself to be a southerner..don't mean I belong to the KKK. That is what Zumbo more or less did. He considered all people that were AR15 owners and shooters to be as a terrorist. In this age when every dogooder in the country seems to know better than we do and thinks they should be our conscience..they want to control us cause we don't know as much as they seem to. You of all people should know that the 2nd amendment ain't about huntin. The Constitution allowed as it was originally written for the states to be their own conscience and were able to leave the Union if they saw fit. That is what the Civil War was really about. So the constitution was changed. We really can't let 'em change the 2nd amendment to a right to hunt. And Zumbo was an ignoramus that thought he was above gettin knocked down for his stupid comments.

[Darkwolf]

Came late to the discussion, but here's my 2 cents...

Firstly, I feel bad that Zumbo made such a blatent comment. I did enjoy reading his columns and articles over the years, especially about elk hunting. Again, the free speech aspect comes up, but as many have pointed out, it's not a protection from people's reactions, just from the government locking you up for critisizing it...

Ah, but like some comments made by Mr. Ruger before his passing, it seems that one's own preference for a type of equipment got expanded into a belief about what other people should be allowed to use... The longbow/compoundbow/crossbow debate and the fracas involving dogs and deer hunting also come to mind.

I'm dissapointed he didn't see the inherent problem about publishing such comments, or how people in the shooting community would react.

Or especially the fact that his own preferred equipment, a bolt-action scope-sighted high-power rifle is "A Sniper Rifle" and the weapon of a political assassin in the minds of the same people who oppose ownership of so-called "assault rifles". JFK, Martin Luther King, and the Texas Tower Sniper are all still vivid images in the minds of the gun-control crowd and the TV watchers they appeal to... not to mention the Beltway Sniper...

Divide and conquer was a very effective strategy that let Julius Ceasar conquer the known world of his time. I'm surprised that Jim Zumbo didn't see that aspect of it as well.

[Riposte1]

Email and brief written replies, even with emoticons, are a poor form of communication so please do not take this as disagreement or criticism but just perspective.

Nearly all my firearms are indeed weapons. I dont mince words, some are for shooting people and some for harvesting game. Some, very few, are for simple recreation (if hunting is a recreation for you that is fine but it is much more than that to me).

The latter two classes fall into the general class of "sporting goods", the former, are "arms" - that's what arms are; weapons, most specifically military weapons (see Miller Vs US). That is why there is a restriction on the governments right to restrict them in the Bill of Rights.

I suppose someone could make the difficult connect between my right to own sporting goods in some other ammendments and I would certainly support that, but I would not think it would win out in today's liberal courts.

So, if I am going to protect my rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happines... I am going to need weapons. Fortunately some wise old men in powdered wigs saw that coming.

Hope that does not sound like too much of a rant.

Best regards,

Riposte

[Lilred]

Skeet...thank you honey...that cleared up alot.

I reckon I feel more for him than most because I share the same label as the ar-15. His entire life is gone in less than a week. What a shame.
Dont misunderstand me...I will always have my guns. There is WAY to many generations of fightin blood in my body not to whoop anybody who attempts to take my guns. In fact, I'd whoop em so bad their mama wouldnt recognize em them next time she saw em.
But...bein the uneducated person that I am...I always assumed (that there is a dangerous word) that the ar-15 was an assault rifle...used fer assaultin people or things. But that's just me. While I DO understand that they aint no difference than any other rifle, just the looks...they were named...assault rifles. So there the bad rap started. Just like the word Confederate.

Both of those are now "engrained" bad words so to speak....and Zumbo sure aint help that cause nary a bit. Apparently I aint helpin the "Confederate" cause none either cause I am apologizin fer slavery, renaming the museum of the confederacy in richmond AND they are also movin it to God knows where.

Yep...we're alllllll over it.

[skeet]

Riposte I can understand the perspective you use for weapons. But perspective is exactly what I try to avoid by not using the word. When people hear the word weapon they immediately have visions of dire actions from other people. I sure am not too politically correct. I just try to let folks know that the tools I use for my fun and even income (in the past) are not intended to be used for weapons. If they are used for weapons it is as a last resort. Don't want or need to shoot anyone unless absolutely necessary. We have to work in ways to let the undecided know that the gun owners in this country are not a threat to their safety...which is exactly what the Brady bunch keep telling everyone...that we are a threat to them. You and I ...both know better. But we still have to convince the undecided! That is why I don't use the word...and cringe when I hear it in public...other than us shooters

[skeet]

Darlin
Whatever you might say about yourself... uneducated... is one thing I know you are not. We are all uneducated in certain ways. Sometimes we have our minds made up and nothing anyone can do will change it..even if we are wrong. The thing that hurts us is letting ourselves believe certain things just because someone else says so. The assault gun thing. Heck a Brown Bess Musket was an assault weapon at one time as was a Springfield musket and an 03 Springfield. The words assault weapon were probably coined by one of the Brady bunch for all I know. But they sure spout that phrase all the time now. Makin us believe they are evil just because of what they are called or because they say so.
Just because there are a bunch of apologists in the world today apologising for the Civil war or slavery or whatever doesn't make what is happening right. Even people who should know better want to say the civil war was all about slavery. I never owned a slave...and neither did my father. Why should I apologize for slavery or pay reparations to people just because they want me too. Get over it and get on with life. Don't forget ...but get over it is what I say. I ain't preachin to you cause I think you feel this way too. Just ranting I guess....but not at you!
I feel bad for Zumbo in some respects...but I think he would have to understand the fact that we have to pay for our actions or words if we are wrong..and get kudos for the same things if we are right. He just stepped on his own tongue....or whatever!! and now the fiddler wants to be paid!!

[Skinny Shooter]

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/long_guns/phar_022707/

Sporting ARs
Stoner's brilliant battle design is following tradition by heading into the woods.
By Dick Metcalf

("The following article was prepared for press prior to the current controversy concerning AR rifles used in hunting, and will appear in the May/June issue of Petersen's Hunting.")

Sporterized military guns have always found their way into the hunting fields--and always with resistance from traditionalists.

Virtually every type of centerfire sporting rifle in existence started off as a military weapon. The classic lever-action deer gun, long the most popular type of hunting rifle in America, began as the Henry Rifle of the Civil War era, designed to bring rapid fire against the enemy. The lever-action was succeeded in universal popularity by the bolt-action--the standard hunting rifle of today--which we owe to Paul Mauser's classic battle-rifle design.

Now another rifle of military origin is moving rapidly into prominence in the hunting and sport shooting world: the AR15 .223 and AR10 .308. And, like its predecessors, the AR platform is meeting resistance, even outright opposition, from many hunters who are personally wedded to earlier gun designs. No surprise there; when the lever action was first used for hunting, traditionalists, whose idea of a "real" hunting gun was a single-shot muzzleloader, distained the need for a repeat-fire tool.

First-generation bolt-action military surplus rifles were also disparaged by many sportsmen as "inappropriate" for hunting. But the AR design's proven capability has already made it the rifle of choice for top-level civilian high-power rifle competition. It is also increasingly the rifle of choice for serious long-range varmint and predator shooters, and it's appearing in increasing numbers in the big-game hunting arena, as well.



It should. ARs are not all just .223 caliber. In fact, most people are probably not aware that the AR design originated as a .308 (7.62mm), not as a .223 (5.56mm).

To get your AR to match the accuracy of the best hunting rifles, swap out its barrel for a match-grade version.

Technically speaking, it makes all the sense in the world that proven military rifle designs should be inherently appropriate for hunting use. All successful military rifles are specifically designed for rugged, reliable function and durability under extreme conditions, which translates automatically into use under even the most extreme field-hunting use. They're also designed for reasonable weight, portability and ease of fast handling by people who may be carrying other heavy gear and wearing bulky clothing. They have an inherent capability for follow-up shots, and they must be deadly accurate against targets of the same basic dimensions and at the same distances typically encountered by hunters.

The AR in particular is a superb hunting design, due primarily to its lightweight synthetic and corrosion-resistant alloy construction. And, it's surprisingly accurate, due primarily to the fact it's an "assembled" gun rather than a "fitted" gun. Its major components essentially snap together. Unlike a traditional bolt-action rifle, which generally requires close-tolerance, hand-work receiver/barrel mating and precise bedding into the stock for maximum accuracy and consistency, a hunting-grade (or even competition-grade) AR can readily be assembled from modular components literally on a kitchen table, by anybody with a modicum of ability to use relatively simple hand tools. Likewise, a service-grade "standard" AR15 can readily be brought up to minute-of-angle performance by selective replacement of key modular elements with match-grade parts. And, once tuned, an AR stays that way, due to the fact that its entirely nonorganic components (nonwood) are not susceptible to environmental distortion (warpage or swelling). All an AR really needs is a quality barrel to shoot as well as the best hunting rifle you can buy.

Hunting versions of the AR design, in a wide variety of chamberings, are currently offered by several manufacturers. One of the early leaders in AR hunting rifle and sport configurations has been ArmaLite, which offers both lightweight and heavy-barrel configurations in .223 (M-12A series) for long-range varmint and predator hunting, .308-chambered versions (AR-10 series) for deer hunting and competition and even a super-accurate .300 Remington Short-Action Ultra Mag (AR-10T Ultra), which is as good an elk, moose or general heavy game chambering as you can get.

MIX & MATCH
Because of its modular design, an AR is very easy to "sporterize" at your home workbench. The range of available quick-install AR accessories is nearly infinite, including a wide variety of precision-adjustable metallic sights, a diversity of optical sight-mount options, many different designs of adjustable or fixed buttstocks and forends (handguards), and attachments for varied styles of carrying and/or shooting slings and bipods for long-range precision shooting. A growing number of AR users are also taking advantage of the basic design to have different upper receivers in different chamberings and/or barrel lengths/weights made to attach to the same lower receiver (legally the serial-numbered actual "firearm"), making an AR nearly as versatile as a T/C Encore.

Other manufacturers offer complete AR rifles and AR upper receivers chambered for such excellent hunting cartridges as the 6.8mm Remington SPC, up to big-bore dangerous-game chamberings such as the .458 SOCOM or .500 Beowulf.

ARs are legal for hunting anywhere any other semiauto centerfire hunting rifle (such as a Browning BAR or Remington 742 or 7400) is legal--except in states that may have passed laws banning specific models and configurations of semiautomatics by calling them "assault rifles."

As for the "black rifle" issue...well, I like wood as much as the next guy, but the most popular hunting rifles in America these days, of any type, all have black or gray synthetic stocks, dull matte surface treatments or camo finishes, anyway. Black or camo bolt-action rifles, or black or camo ARs--what's the difference? If hunting with a "black gun" bothers you, don't. If you oppose others using a hunting tool simply because it doesn't "look right," you're standing on the same political platform as the California state legislature. Hunters should not do the antigun, antihunter groups' work for them.

The AR platform is a hunting rifle, and anyone who says differently simply doesn't know history.

[Riposte1]

Lilred;

Just so you will have a clear technical understanding, before the politicians decided they were the experts, Dept of Defense defined "Assault Rifle" as a rifle of intermediate power, capabale of fully automatic fire. As opposed to a Main Battle Rifle which is of "full" power and can be semi-auto or some other sort of repeater (like a Bolt Action).

The term "Assault Weapon" was invented by the gun grabbers in Congress to confuse folks...apparently it worked. It includes both long guns and pistols and the list it includes seems to grow every day.

On another note, I saw a bumper sticker that you might like the other day...it had the "Stars and Bars" and said "Fighting terrorism since 1861"

Best regards,
Riposte

[Riposte1]

Skeet;
It is perfectly OK to have a different pespective. You can articulate your position well and that is what counts. Folks have different life experiences.

I am relatively old and more than a little bit tired of sheep. One of the better moments I have had was when 60 Minutes inteviewed my friend Clint Smith on sniping and were hem hawing around the issue when Clint directly said "you know, some people just need to be shot."

No sane, righteous person wants to shoot other people for some thrill or to feel "big". In fact only a psychopath wants to harm folks at all. But if we are to deal with violence which comes our way we have to face the fact that we either have to meet it effectively (and to do that we have to prepare well before hand) or suffer the consequences.

I would highly commend to every person who goes out into the public to read Jeff Snyder's "A Nation of Cowards" essay.

I always liked Jeff Coopers retort to someone who suggest to him "violence begets violence". He said "It is my fervent hope this is true...if someone visits violence on me he will get more than he can stand in return."

I appoligize for my intensity, but this is something I feel intensely. The answer to predatory criminal behavior is not to run, hide or cower...it is to stop it right there on the spot.

Thanks for your patience and understanding.

Best regards,
Riposte

"The will to win is nothing without the will to Prepare."

[Riposte1]

BTW, now that I have contributed to the thread drift, perhaps I can get it back somewhat by noting that in about 20 minutes I am off for an Elk Hunt

Unfortunately, it will be with a camera not a gun. Nowhere near as nutritional but it beats watching TV (like I would know, I dont even get TV).

Riposte

[fabsroman]

Riposte,

I love that post of yours. Personally, I think that every sane adult should carry a gun. That way, people will think twice about committing a crime. Can you imagine how much rape would fall if rapists knew that every woman carried a gun. Everybody wants to run and hide from these violent crimes, and it pisses me off. Okay, I am going to stop here before I really get going and spend the rest of my afternoon responding to something we both agree on.

[skeet]

I like that bumper sticker. Ya know I'm kinda old too although not as old as Rocky. But I spent some time in the same theater of, well, fighting as he did. I'm a little tired of the sheeple in this country too. Just try not to get them bleating and running using words that scare them. or ones they don't understand! Nothing to apologize for as I do understand. Read the nation of cowards and agree with most. And the man was right..some folks just deserve killin. Seriously shot just ain't enough for some. And Fabs is a standup guy...even if he is an attorney(that's high brow for lawyer or Calhoon). And ya know...you ain't missin much by not "gettin" TV! Hope ya "get an elk or two!

[Lilred]

Here's one from the Lilred book of filosofy:

Every human bein needs their arsh kicked at one time or another. Some people needs their arsh kicked more than once. The ones that never learn face natural selection.

As ya'll already know...I'm a firm believer in natural selection lol