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Old 11-11-2010, 11:36 AM
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jon lynn jon lynn is offline
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Going bonkers over my 98

Okay experts, Jon needs help.

I took my newly built 98 to the range on this Veterans Day, and my first 3 shots were a true inch (Yay), about three inches high. The first shot was 1/2" above the 2nd & 3rd touching shots,

I did my eight clicks down to be an inch high at 100 yards.

I let the barrel cool for 20 minutes, and ran a wet brush, four dry patches (a nice tight Otis), and fired three more, and the group spread to almost 2"

A perfect triangle, around the bulls-eye.

WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON?
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Old 11-11-2010, 12:08 PM
Larryjk Larryjk is offline
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(1) Check the scope mounts for loose screws.
(2) Make sure the action screws are tight.
(3) Is the scope a known quantity?
(4) Maybe you should just shoot the rifle more to make sure it is settled in the stock.
(5) Clean the barrel as in a breaking in sequence.
(6) Are you calling the shots?
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Old 11-11-2010, 02:48 PM
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Larryjk, here is what I did, or was done in reguard to your list. Please crituque and add to or take away:

Scope mounts were tightened and Lock-Tight applied when installed (Warne Maxima Weaver) style bases, but I did check them and they were still tight.

Action screws are tight as I dare for a Mauser, you know the lower assembly (trigger/magazine) with the guide screws.

Scope is a Burris Fullfield (older, not a "II") in Weaver Rings.

Please explain the 'settle in stock'

Now as for cleaning, I treat this as I do any new rifle, because what is the difference in a rifle purchased new, and a new barrel threaded on to an action? I myself, see no difference.

After every 3 round shot group, I clean the barrel using my Otis cable system, running the brush through five times with Break Free, then pull through the patches through until they come out clean.

I wait a minimum of 15 minutes between groups.

This rifle has had less than forty total rounds through it, and the groups are shrinking nicely. But when it starts off with a good grouping of three, then a spread in the next, after a cleaning, just makes me ........MAD!

How can the first three be so tight? What makes bullet number 4 through six be like teenagers (all over the place for no good reason)?
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Old 11-11-2010, 04:29 PM
Larryjk Larryjk is offline
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jon lynn, "settle in the stock". If the action wasn't glas bedded, it usually takes a "bunch" of shots for the stock to compress the wood behind the recoil lug to where the action is snug in the stock. If your groups are improving don't worryabout the first shot being in a different place. After 40 shots and cleaning the barrel often, you are getting close. Usually 50 shots is considered as break in for the barrel. What caliberis the rifle? I hate to say this but sometimes on a new rifle the shooter isn't used to the trigger or the feel of the gun and the first shot "gets away". Then you bear down and the rest go where you are aiming. I think you should just keep going since I think you are on the right track.
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Old 11-11-2010, 05:38 PM
Catfish Catfish is offline
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You should have shot another group of 3 shot. Alot of guns group better after the barrel is fouled than they do with a clean barrel. Next time you shot a large group after cleaning shot another group without cleaning. That will tell you fast.
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Old 11-11-2010, 06:33 PM
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Larry,

the Mauser is a .308 with a 24" 1/10 twist. I am using 150 grain factory bullets.

Catfish,

I will fire more groups next time, doing the 'foul' shots.

But since my '06 is still dead on, I will use it Saturday, and zero the .308 after deer season.

Jon
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Old 11-12-2010, 11:03 AM
Larryjk Larryjk is offline
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jon lynn, You are telling me the gun is fine with a clean barrel for the first group and then things go south. Try this. Clean the barrel and then swab it out with acetone or some other de-greaser. Let it set for some time to get dry. Then watch the muzzle and down about 1 inch. Do that by using a q-tip to reflect the light into the barrel. What you should watch for are the green streaks of copper fouling. If you find them, keep cleaning until the copper is all gone. Try some of the foam cleaners, they do a good job. Just make sure the barrel is free of any oil if you want the copper cleaners to do a good job. Once the barrel is free of copper, stick with the three shot groups and clean until the barrel stays almost clean. Some barrels are harder to break in than others. If the barrel shoots good groups clean and then goes south, clean it again. Eventually you will win.
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Old 11-14-2010, 07:05 AM
Ridge Runner Ridge Runner is offline
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is break free a copper solvent? not sure, never used it. are your dry patches coming out blue?
my cleaning sequence
solvent on a bronze brush and scrub 10-12 strokes, let stand 10 min
solvent on a bronze brush and scrub 10-12 strokes, let stand 10 min
dry patch
wet patch
dry patch, dry patch, if there's any blue repeat the whole sequence
oily patch
foul before shooting.
I use a solvent with ammonia in it to cut the copper.
RR
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Old 11-14-2010, 08:08 AM
Jack Jack is offline
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Break Free is not a copper solvent.
Ridge Runner, by putting copper solvent on a bronze brush, you're guaranteeing you'll get a blue patch- from the solvent eating the bronze brush. There is no way to tell whether the blue on your patch comes from the brush, or copper in the bore.
I would suggest you apply solvent with patches or nylon brushes.
Nothing wrong with bronze brushes, IMO- I use them. Just don't use them in a bore wet with copper solvent.
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Old 11-15-2010, 04:16 AM
Ridge Runner Ridge Runner is offline
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thats why I use a dry and wet patch after the brush.
RR
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Old 11-16-2010, 08:23 AM
Seawolf1090 Seawolf1090 is offline
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Question

The variance ain't that much - it's still a 'dead deer'.........
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  #12  
Old 11-19-2010, 11:12 AM
Larryjk Larryjk is offline
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jon lynn, Haven't heard anything for awhile. How is the break in going? I am wondering what brand of barrel you have. Some barrels are easier to break in than others. Generally, the "name brand" barrels will be easier to break in than others. If you are still haveing fouling it is because the barrel had more tooling marks than others. You might want to get JB Bore ccleaner and lap the hell out of the barrel with it. I don't want to suggest a more aggressive lapping compound because you might overdo the process and destroy some of the rifling. You can feel the tight spots where fouling is at and short stroke those areas to remove the fouling, but always end up by full length lapping to even out the bore.
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Old 11-19-2010, 03:25 PM
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Larry,

I've been hunting (with the MR7) for now. I'll hold off the range until after Thanksgiving, but I will keep y'all posted!
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Old 11-29-2010, 06:54 AM
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"After every 3 round shot group, I clean the barrel using my Otis cable system, running the brush through five times with Break Free, then pull through the patches through until they come out clean."

Jon,
The military has Break Free everywhere. I wish I had a dollar for every young GI with "found" Break Free that showed up at my Rod and Gun Club range while I was the range master there. They could not hit a bull in the butt with a base fiddle with their "cleaned" guns. You just got a lesson in Break Free in a bore, first hand. Bad news is this, I have seen it take many, many rounds to clear the effects. The crap will not come out any other way, but to shoot it out. It is a lubricant that contains a polymer and it coats the inside of a bore......it is not a bore solvent or a bore cleaner or a proper bore treatment, and never has been or will be. Put it all over your gun, drink it if you wish, but do not put it in the bore of a gun.

Go get a shotgun solvent that dissolves wad residue and scrub the pee out of your bore, it might help, that is might. Otherwise, shoot and scrub, shoot and scrub with Shooters Choice Copper Solvent, unitl the accuracy returns.
Ed
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Old 12-11-2010, 01:29 AM
PJgunner PJgunner is offline
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Let's look at this from another angle. Shoot your 3 shot group but don't clean the barrel. let cool as normal and shoot another 3 rounds. Some rifles shoot better with a fouled barrel. My custom .35 Whelen will shoot abut a 1.5" three shot group from a totally clean barrel. After cooling, the next and following groups will run from .50" to .75" as long as I do my part. Clean the barrel and groups open up again.
FWIW, I do not believe in that barrel break in BS. The late barrel maker gale McMillan would void the warranty on his barrels if the shooter did a break in process. He felt that all breaking in did was make a barrel wear out a little sooner. He felt that normal shooting would take care of any breaking in a barrel might need. I have five rifles with custom barrel. None have gone though any special breaking in and four of the five are sub-MOA and the one that is not has olny had maybe 40 rounds through it. It's a .308 BTW. Right now it's about a 1.15" shooter. I expect that will shrink down some.
Paul B.
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