Hunt Chat  

Go Back   Hunt Chat > All Things HC > Bows and Gear

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-03-2005, 01:01 PM
travisbeams travisbeams is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 10
Thumbs down What's My Problem?

I missed a nice buck on opening morning. The shot was a steep angle 15 yard shot, but I felt very confident about it. The shot was low and stuck in between the deers legs. The same thing happened last year on the first shot of the season. I shoot a hoyt razor tech, that I practice with quite a bit and feel very, very confident even out to 40 yards. It seems I can get 2 inch groupings about 95% of the time. So how could this happen? I practice from the ground mainly, but do fine tune practice from a tree. Does anyone have a clue what I'm doing wrong, or have any suggestions on how to get over this hump. It completely shakes my confidence, and causes me to spend the next month in my stand replaying the scene in my mind.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-03-2005, 01:18 PM
toxic111's Avatar
toxic111 toxic111 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Posts: 1,838
To me it sounds like that the angle was very steep and you used the wrong pin.

When you have a 60d or better angel to nearly straight down, the right pin to use might not even be in your bow.

You might have to set up a target at 15yrds and set up a stand with a steep angle shot to see where your bow is hitting.
__________________
It doesn't matter what you hunt, as long as you hunt

<hr>

Member - AOPA - Lloydminster & Area Archery Assoc. - Life Member NAHC - IBEP Instructor
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-03-2005, 02:20 PM
LoneWolf's Avatar
LoneWolf LoneWolf is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Livingston County, Mi
Posts: 3,122
I think Toxic has it summed up. Have you tried it in practice using the scenario you had on the deer. This will give you the best indicator. Or maybe you just got a little buck fever and missed
BTW, looks like you accidently posted this three times, so I went and deleted the other 2 posts.
__________________
Moderator: Bowhunting, Swap and Shop, and Hunting Tales

LoneWolf@huntchat.com
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-03-2005, 05:27 PM
AK NIMROD AK NIMROD is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: SOLDOTNA, ALASKA
Posts: 384
AS STATED ANGLE IS A BIG FACTOR IT WOULD BE THE PIN FOR THE HORIZONAL DISTANCE. IF VERY CLOSE SHOTS ( 5 YARDS) TRY THE 30 YARD PIN. SEE WHERE YOUR BOW SHOOTS WHEN YOU DO THAT. ALSO BENDING AT THE WAIST WHEN SHOOTING FRON TREE STAND CAN BE HELPFUL. NOT DROPPING ARM CHANGING ANGLE OF ARM TO CHEST FROM NORMAL SHOOTING FORM.
THIS YEAR I MISSED SHOTS AT CARIBOU AND A MOOSE I BELIEVE MY PROBLEM IS NOT PICKING A SPOT AND / OR NOT CONCENTRATING WELL ENOUGH. SINCE A KILLED 2 DUCKS AND 4 PTARMIGAN. MOST OF WHICH WERE AT 30 YARDS. HGARD TO UNDERSTAND WHY I WOULD MISS A TARGET AS BIG AS A CARIBOU AT THE SAME DISTANCE OR CLOSER.
__________________
LIFE MEMBER NRA
LIFE MEM. ALASKA BOWHUNTERS ASSOC. (ABA)
MASTER I.B.E.P INSTRUCTOR
SEC/TRES. KUPARUK RIVER ARCHERY CLUB.
MEMBER UNITED BLOOD TRACKER
POPE AND YOUNG OFFICIAL MEASURER
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-03-2005, 11:56 PM
Rustywreck Rustywreck is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Solon Springs, WI
Posts: 546
Shooting form.
Draw horizontal, bend at the waist to the target.
It is a common mistake: People will point the bow down toward the target, then draw. Doing this will mess up your anchor and form.
Bending at the waist is key to shooting from an elevation, either up or down.
Aside from form, knowing the horizontal yardage is key. It doesn't matter what the yardage is from you treestand to the target - shoot for the yardage from the base of the tree to the target.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-04-2005, 09:06 AM
travisbeams travisbeams is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 10
Smile Thanks for the advice

I appreciate it. It must be in my form. Let's say your closests pin is set for 15 yards....now, a deer is 4 yards from your stand. I mean almost right underneath you. It would seem that a missed shot would generally be high on the target rather than low. But I guess not. It just really frustrates me. I've been bow hunting for 5 years now and have dropped a number of good deer. I think I'm 100% from a good distance, but I've missed 2 nice bucks now that were just feet from the base of my stand.

Also has anyone had any problem with broadhead penetration at very steep shots. Do you think it's likely to actually hit , but the angle cause the arrow to deflect away rather than penetrating.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-04-2005, 09:55 AM
fabsroman's Avatar
fabsroman fabsroman is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Maryland
Posts: 7,823
You are correct about the arrow shooting over the back of the deer if you are using the wrong pin.

As far as arrow deflection is concerned, there should be almost no deflection if you aim for the top of the deer's back. If the deer were directly beneath me, I would aim for its spinal column with a dead on hold using an imaginary pin that is closer than the 20 yard pin on my bow.
__________________
The pond, waterfowl, and yellow labs...it don't get any better.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-04-2005, 01:00 PM
AK NIMROD AK NIMROD is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: SOLDOTNA, ALASKA
Posts: 384
try in practice the 30 yard pin for a 4-5 yard shot see how that works for you. i realize this may not make sense but i recall it worked for me in the past . have not tried it recently
__________________
LIFE MEMBER NRA
LIFE MEM. ALASKA BOWHUNTERS ASSOC. (ABA)
MASTER I.B.E.P INSTRUCTOR
SEC/TRES. KUPARUK RIVER ARCHERY CLUB.
MEMBER UNITED BLOOD TRACKER
POPE AND YOUNG OFFICIAL MEASURER
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-04-2005, 02:24 PM
BILLY D.'s Avatar
BILLY D. BILLY D. is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: MINOT (MINDROT) ND
Posts: 1,498
xA






xB xC


let us hark back to our high school days and geometry class. the day that we were supposed to be listening to the teacher talk about pythagora's theory were were looking about three seats over at this gorgeous little brunette, man she was beautiful, the sunlight dancing in her hair, the pullover sweater she was wearing more than than adequately filled and what a a set of legs. she was built like a brick chicken coop. suddenly we hear a noise, damn it's the bell ringing. i missed the whole class looking at this girl. oh well , i'll catch it tomorrow. not. well, it's now tomorrow.

here is pythagora's theory. Asquared+Bsquared=Csquared. by the way this also works in field artillery, if you are ever employed in that field. no pun intended.

now using the above diagram and hypothetical numbers we will figure out why we missed our deer. you will have to draw lines from point.

using point A as your arrow in the rest and point B as the distance to the ground we crank in a number of 8 yards, we have previously used our handy dandy lazer rangefinder and found the deer to be 30 yards away or point C. so we now take out our handy dandy calculator and punch in some digits, 8 squared is 64 or 64 yards, the sighting distance point A to point C is 30 yards squared or 900. to find B, the actual distance to my target we now figure that Csquared minus Asquared, or 900 minus 64 equals 836. the square root of 836 is 28.9 yards which is really the distance to my deer. and that is the distance over which gravity will affect my arrow.

now the ultimate solution to all this math is to purchase an opti logic rangefinder that compensates for uphill and downhill cosines and automatically computes and tells you the correct yardage, no matter what the angle.

now who ever said bow hunting was easy?

by the way the good looking girl i talked about, she became a nun. and all this post i learned from outdoor life.

good luck shooting and good luck hunting.
__________________
HAPPY TRAILS

BILL

NRA LIFE MEMBER 1965
DAV
IHMSA
JPFO-LIFE MEMBER

"THE" THREAD KILLER

IT' OK.....I'VE STARTED UP MY MEDS AGAIN. THEY SHOULD TAKE EFFECT IN ABOUT A WEEK. (STACI-2006)

HANDLOADS ARE LIKE UNDERWEAR...BE CAREFUL WHO YOU SWAP WITH.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-04-2005, 02:35 PM
BILLY D.'s Avatar
BILLY D. BILLY D. is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: MINOT (MINDROT) ND
Posts: 1,498
in my post above the C is supposed to be close to the right margin, but i can't get it to stay there. sorry.
__________________
HAPPY TRAILS

BILL

NRA LIFE MEMBER 1965
DAV
IHMSA
JPFO-LIFE MEMBER

"THE" THREAD KILLER

IT' OK.....I'VE STARTED UP MY MEDS AGAIN. THEY SHOULD TAKE EFFECT IN ABOUT A WEEK. (STACI-2006)

HANDLOADS ARE LIKE UNDERWEAR...BE CAREFUL WHO YOU SWAP WITH.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-04-2005, 07:08 PM
LoneWolf's Avatar
LoneWolf LoneWolf is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Livingston County, Mi
Posts: 3,122
One other thing that I have just done by habit after all these years was mentioned above. I simply draw back and bend at the waist. For some reason this has really helped me get good hits on the close ones. And there is nothing like slapping one between and behind the shoulder blades and seeing them drop down right there
__________________
Moderator: Bowhunting, Swap and Shop, and Hunting Tales

LoneWolf@huntchat.com
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-23-2005, 10:42 PM
skeeter@ccia.com skeeter@ccia.com is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: western pa.
Posts: 1,086
BillyD just hit the nail on the head...it all works around that day in school some missed..lucky for me my math teacher brought her husband in just the day before so us boys would quit oggling and drooling....but the easy way to do it is this..pick a tree close to where the deer is standing. Follow the tree up to where it looks even with your feet....this is the right angle....now measure the distance from that point of the tree to where you are standing....this is the proper distance pin you should use...I don't have one of those fancy calc/rangfinders but the rangefinder will show you both distance to the deer down below and to the tree right x from you...yes there is a difference...and why you didn't shoot over his back instead of under....???....wrong pin has to be the answer..most would use the longer distance pin....which is wrong...in excitement I have jumped to the wrong one but lucky back then at 80lb bow...both pins were good back to 40yds because they both covered the area....if they have any of those 3D shoots in your area....they are not only a blast with your buddies but great for learning all those odd shots....I just wish I ddin't have to move to the xbow....now can't join in ...
.....if anyone sees things different.....feel free...but this is how I do it....base of tree closest deer, follow up the tree till it is x from you and use the pin for that distance....works for me.
__________________
mugrump
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-24-2005, 01:03 PM
Steverino Steverino is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Illinois-NW
Posts: 702
Hey Travis,


First off, don't beat yourself up-anybody that has hunted for any period of time has messed up at one time or another-that's how we learn.

Billy,
The least you could have done, my friend, is borrowed one of Ich's past brunette babes off the HC archives for having us read through that long post! Talk about post-school tramautic stress disorder!

Back to our man Travis-

Your scenerio is one of the reasons that I shoot a pendulum site from an elevated stand. While these won't cure bad shooting form, I have found them very good at taking the guesswork out of messing with the abbacas, slide rule, and protractor for angled shots. When buck fever hits, it's enough to inconspicuously draw without being busted, maintain a good anchor point, bend at the waist, pick a spot, exhale, squeeze and follow through.

There is a variety of very good pendulums that will lock down for ground shots and are very accurate out to 35 yards and farther depending on your set-up. Give em' a looksie.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-24-2005, 02:36 PM
BILLY D.'s Avatar
BILLY D. BILLY D. is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: MINOT (MINDROT) ND
Posts: 1,498
Quote:
Originally posted by Steverino
Hey Travis,


First off, don't beat yourself up-anybody that has hunted for any period of time has messed up at one time or another-that's how we learn.

Billy,
The least you could have done, my friend, is borrowed one of Ich's past brunette babes off the HC archives for having us read through that long post! Talk about post-school tramautic stress disorder!

Back to our man Travis-

Your scenerio is one of the reasons that I shoot a pendulum site from an elevated stand. While these won't cure bad shooting form, I have found them very good at taking the guesswork out of messing with the abbacas, slide rule, and protractor for angled shots. When buck fever hits, it's enough to inconspicuously draw without being busted, maintain a good anchor point, bend at the waist, pick a spot, exhale, squeeze and follow through.

There is a variety of very good pendulums that will lock down for ground shots and are very accurate out to 35 yards and farther depending on your set-up. Give em' a looksie.
steve

brunette babes........where ,where?

sorry that was such a long and drawn out post but i couldn't simplify any more than what it was. i do know it works for me.

the best way i found while hunting is to range certain objects ahead of time that way when that nice deer comes around we already know what the range is. with a rifle it's a whole different ball game. up close and personal in a stand diminishes the time you have to react to the target.

i'm still looking for the brunettes. especially if they have blue eyes.

your suggestion on the pendulums is an excellent one. ya can't practice too much.

good hunting
__________________
HAPPY TRAILS

BILL

NRA LIFE MEMBER 1965
DAV
IHMSA
JPFO-LIFE MEMBER

"THE" THREAD KILLER

IT' OK.....I'VE STARTED UP MY MEDS AGAIN. THEY SHOULD TAKE EFFECT IN ABOUT A WEEK. (STACI-2006)

HANDLOADS ARE LIKE UNDERWEAR...BE CAREFUL WHO YOU SWAP WITH.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-24-2005, 03:42 PM
Steverino Steverino is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Illinois-NW
Posts: 702
I'm just messing with ya Billy,

Your post wasn't long and is "spot-on."
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version
Copyright ©2000 - 2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.