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Old 01-04-2011, 01:13 PM
Adam Helmer Adam Helmer is offline
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Penn State's view of PGC deer management.

The Pennsylvania deer herd is far, far below carrying capacity. Dr. John Eveland from Penn State worked on PA bear and elk for the Pennsylvania Game Commission. He offered to do a whitetail deer study, but was rebuffed by PGC.

If you go to the link www.acsl-pa.org you will get to a site about PA deer mismanagement. Go to Video Presentations mid-way on the top bar, drop down 4 lines to Herd Mismanagement and click on that. There are 8 parts to the program that details how a deer herd should not be managed.

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Old 01-04-2011, 03:41 PM
bigbrother bigbrother is offline
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Well, holy crap. Now what?
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Old 01-04-2011, 03:51 PM
Adam Helmer Adam Helmer is offline
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bigbrother,

I sincerely hope we give the few remaining deer a well-deserved BREAK! PGC was NEVER Scientific and the poor deer got the short end of the stick!

Adam
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Old 01-04-2011, 03:58 PM
bigbrother bigbrother is offline
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Exactly.....AND all of us PA sportsmen know that the PGC ruined our deer herd.

But seriously, what do we do now? That's what I'd like to know....

Don't shoot does for the next three years? I'm in....what about the next guy?

Buy my doe tag and all the bonus tags and DMAP (read bullshit) tags I can get and not fill them so the next guy won't have them either? Small investment to make toward the future of the deer herd.

Does that really help? Or does the PGC when there's sign of a little recovery higher people to come in and shoot them anyway? (don't put it past them people)

So seriously....WHAT DO WE DO?

I'm frustrated on one hand when I see all the POSTED signs. But in reality I believe these few private land owners and lease holders are the current saving grace for our deer herd. A lot of these people are micromanaging their property and not taking the does from it....one ray of light in this mess.

Again....WHAT DO WE DO?

I can't do it alone. Adam and I can't do it alone....

WHAT DO WE DO?
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Old 01-05-2011, 09:32 AM
Adam Helmer Adam Helmer is offline
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bigbrother,

We need to organize in support of the PA deer herd. You might consider joining the Unified Sportsmen of Pennsylvania at www.unifiedsportsmenpa.org. A one year membership costs $20. USP are the folks taking PGC to court on February 28, 2011.

We can also contact our state representatives and write to the Game Commissioners. There are a few new folks on the Board and there is room for hope.

Welcome aboard.

Adam
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Old 01-05-2011, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Helmer View Post
bigbrother,

We need to organize in support of the PA deer herd. You might consider joining the Unified Sportsmen of Pennsylvania at www.unifiedsportsmenpa.org. A one year membership costs $20. USP are the folks taking PGC to court on February 28, 2011.

We can also contact our state representatives and write to the Game Commissioners. There are a few new folks on the Board and there is room for hope.

Welcome aboard.

Adam
About the only way to do it is just as you describe. You have to join an organization, or create an organization that can attract members, that is geared toward this very think. Kind of like the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation.

I can remember 20 years ago when I first started hunting deer. In Maryland, it was a buck or nothing at all. We were allowed to kill a single buck with a rifle or a bow. Wasn't into muzzleloader back then, if it even existed, so at most we got to kill 2 bucks. NO DOES at all. Now, in the county I live in and most of the surrounding counties, we have deer coming out the wazoo. I have counted 12 in a little 5 acre wetland behind my townhouse. The wetland area is part of a creek that runs for miles and miles that the deer stay in during the day. Here are some pics that I took behind out townhouse last January 15. The big buck had a weird rack.

Now, if we are merely one state south of PA, why is it that PA just cannot figure this out? You PA hunters need to ban together and demand more from your game commission. Of course, that means that you all have to be willing to sacrifice for a couple of years, which is so unlike our current society. I can remember 20 years ago when there was a moratorium on Atlantic Population Canada Goose and the waterfowlers were crying up a storm. I didn't really do much waterfowling back then so I didn't care much. For the past 15 years though I have been hunting waterfowl pretty hard. When the moratorium was raised, we were first allowed 1 bird. The moaning continued. Now, we are allowed 2 birds and people are still moaning. Thing is, most of us don't even want the birds after we kill them. Might as well shoot clay pigeons at that point.

Good luck to you guys.
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Old 01-06-2011, 10:59 AM
kt kt is offline
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well the problem that i see is that the game commission is damn near broke. now i dont know who gets all those $6.75 checks for tags but who ever it is isnt gonna be happy to lose it all next year as revenue. so then what.
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Old 01-06-2011, 06:04 PM
Adam Helmer Adam Helmer is offline
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fabs,

Beautiful pictures of deer. Thanks for the support. I am working to restore PA deer hunting. If you watched the John Eveland video in all 8 parts, you then know what we PA hunters are up against.

Be well.

Adam
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Old 01-06-2011, 06:16 PM
Adam Helmer Adam Helmer is offline
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kt,

The Pennsylvania Game Commission MAY be hiding Gas Lease ASSETS! The PGC sits on 1.5 million acres of land in 265 tracts throughout PA. PGC states, "We do not own the oil, gas and mineral rights for ALL game land acreage." Correct, PGC does not own ALL OGM rights, BUT PGC has about 40-60% OGM ownership and the gas lease money apparently is NOT making its way into the Game Fund.

An employee has stated the PGC is "stashing" (hiding) gas lease money in CDs while it continues to cry the "poor mouth" and demand a hunting license increase. DCNR has about double the acreage of PGC and has reciueved 14 million in gas leases. How much will PGC own up to?

If you owned 1.5 million pristine acres of valuable hardwood, coal and gas today in PA you would be a multi-millionaire. PGC owns that 1.5 million acres, so why is there no REPORTABLE return on all that land?

Adam
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Old 01-06-2011, 11:40 PM
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fabsroman fabsroman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Helmer View Post
kt,

The Pennsylvania Game Commission MAY be hiding Gas Lease ASSETS! The PGC sits on 1.5 million acres of land in 265 tracts throughout PA. PGC states, "We do not own the oil, gas and mineral rights for ALL game land acreage." Correct, PGC does not own ALL OGM rights, BUT PGC has about 40-60% OGM ownership and the gas lease money apparently is NOT making its way into the Game Fund.

An employee has stated the PGC is "stashing" (hiding) gas lease money in CDs while it continues to cry the "poor mouth" and demand a hunting license increase. DCNR has about double the acreage of PGC and has reciueved 14 million in gas leases. How much will PGC own up to?

If you owned 1.5 million pristine acres of valuable hardwood, coal and gas today in PA you would be a multi-millionaire. PGC owns that 1.5 million acres, so why is there no REPORTABLE return on all that land?

Adam
I seriously doubt that they could hide the money from the gas income. It might very well be that the State of Pennsylvania owns the land and is using that income in the general fund. You need to read up on the laws and see how the PGC is funded. In Maryland, it pretty much states how license fees are supposed to be used. Plus, the legislature sets the operating budget of DNR.

Unless the PGC is a separate and private entity from the State of Pennsylvania, I seriously doubt it has much control over how much money it gets. If anything, you should look into this too. If your state is not providing your game commission with adequate funds to protect the game resources, then you need to fix that too. For instance, you can pass as many laws as you want to protect the deer herd, but if there are no game wardens to enforce the laws you might as well forget about it.
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Old 01-08-2011, 09:48 AM
Adam Helmer Adam Helmer is offline
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fabsroman,

The PGC is a separate and private entity. The state provides no funds; the PGC gets its revenue from hunting licenses, timber sales and coal and gas leases.

Adam
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Old 01-08-2011, 12:00 PM
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fabsroman,

The PGC is a separate and private entity. The state provides no funds; the PGC gets its revenue from hunting licenses, timber sales and coal and gas leases.

Adam
That sounds like the stupidest thing I have ever heard. A private entity is in charge of enforcing the game laws and managing the state resources. Sheer stupidity if you ask me. I just find it hard to believe that a state would be that stupid. Is there any governmental oversight of the PGC? Why would the PGC care about the long term sustainability of the state's natural resources? Most people/companies cannot plan for next year, let along generations. I would say I am speachless, but as you can see I have plenty to say about this. Maybe disgusted. Might use a lot of 4 letter words to describe how I feel about your situation. At the end of the day, I think this is a PA government issue. How did it ever come to be that a private entity was put in place to determine game laws, etc.?
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Old 01-09-2011, 11:20 AM
Adam Helmer Adam Helmer is offline
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fabs,

That is how it is! The PGC DOES NOT concern itself with hunter input. They are out of control!

Adam
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Old 01-10-2011, 10:57 AM
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I suspect that the PGC was originally set up as a separate entity so that their funds couldn't be raided for the state's other funding needs.
States draining their fish and game department funds for other uses is a common problem/potential problem in a number of states.
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Old 01-10-2011, 11:27 AM
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http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal...y/aboutus/9113

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The Pennsylvania Game Commission

For more than 100 years, the Game Commission has managed the Commonwealth's wildlife resources for all Pennsylvanians. With the help of more than 700 full-time employees and thousands of part-timers and volunteers, the agency provides a host of benefits to wildlife, state residents and visitors.

Wildlife has always been an important part of Pennsylvania's cultural heritage. Every day, it touches the lives of countless Pennsylvanians and most of us consider it to be a state treasure.

In the late 1800s, however, wildlife was dwindling as a result of deforestation, pollution and unregulated hunting and trapping. From this dark period emerged the Game Commission, created by the state Legislature to protect and conserve wildlife, which was then commonly referred to as "game." The wildlife diversity we enjoy today is largely due to the agency's progressive, scientifically-based wildlife management programs and support from countless Pennsylvanians and outdoors organizations. It's a partnership that has accomplished much for wildlife since the turn of the century, and no doubt will continue. For more information about the Game Commission's Wildlife Conservation History click here.

Pennsylvanians also are indebted to Legislators and Governors, both past and present, who have had the courage to enact critically important laws that set the stage for the state's wildlife recovery, as well as the creation of the "State Game Lands system." They worked closely with the Game Commission to develop wildlife-friendly legislation that became the envy of the nation and the glue that held the Commonwealth's then-fragile wildlife restoration effort together.

Funded primarily by hunting and furtaker license sales; State Game Lands timber, mineral and oil/gas revenues; and a federal excise tax on sporting arms and ammunition; the Commission is almost entirely supported by hunters and trappers, or assets that have been procured with license dollars. The Commission does not receive state General Fund appropriations. More than half its annual revenue comes from license sales, a relatively fixed income source. License fees cannot be increased without approval of the General Assembly, and fee increases have historically come only about every 10 years.

The following sections have been compiled to acquaint you with the Commission's mission, and the many services and recreational opportunities the agency provides. It covers the scope of the agency's operations and highlights important benefits to Pennsylvanians.
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