California Police

[TheeBadOne]

Originally posted by fabsroman
At least we can both agree that we don't have all the facts here. However, I am surprised that the police department wouldn't have released anything in their favor to quite the news media (e.g., this girl was a problem in school, she had committed assaults in the past and been given warnings). -no surprise at all. 1) Juvenile information is confidential and can NOT be released, period (by law).
2) Active investigations. Info is NOT released on an active investigation. This would cover it up until charges were filed in court (so no chance of the media getting anything before they run the story).


As far as charging discretion goes, I have been pulled over and let off twice within the last year. Once on the way home from picking up my brothers after a bar fight wherein I forgot to turn on the beams (i.e., I had the parking lights on) after picking them up. I got pulled over by the same LEO that was at the bar and let my brothers go. He approached my truck, asked me if I knew why I was being pulled over, and I explained that I did and that the lights were now on. I also explained where I was coming from, and that is when he looked in the passenger seat and told me to get going.

The other incident happened in Arizona on my way to the Grand Canyon. I was pulled over for doing 68 in a 55 as I just came off the interstate. I was trying to get my cell phone out of my pocket and wasn't paying attention. I saw the officer make the U-turn so I started to slow down and get the renta;'s registration and driver's license ready. He ended up giving me a warning and I made sure I obeyed the speed limit the rest of the week.
Giving a pass on a minor traffic infraction is in an entirely different league than an Assault with Injury.



Anyway, I think I already told you about the above stories and have said a bunch of times that there are good and bad in every profession just as sure as there are good and bad people, and there always will be.

At the end of the day, maybe life is a lot worse in schools than when I was going to school, but somehow I doubt it is that bad in an elementary school. If this girl was 11, she was probably in 6th grade. Without hearing the 911 tapes, I am sticking to 3 LEO's, 3 cruisers, a helicopter, and assault charges being a little much.
Your prerogative. Mine sees nothing out of the ordinary other than a little creative/appeal to emotional reporting.
Ask the parents of the Assault victim if they are displeased with the Police response. I've looked, but can't find a bad word from them anywhere.

TBO

[fabsroman]

TBO,

Let me sum it up this way, if there are three LEO's sitting at a donut shop doing nothing, then fine, send them to the scene. I still believe that society would be better served if two of those LEO's were enforcing moving violations and such.

I guess my feelings about wasted police resources stems from several things.

1) We had a pretty good accident out in front of my place the other day that essentially closed down the street for over an hour. A 4 way stop sign had been put in here right before we moved in a year ago, and I almost got T-boned by a girl that never saw the thing. I almost pulled out in front of her, and then figured out that she wasn't going to stop. She actually saw the stop sign, locked up the brakes, and had them locked as she proceeded through the stop sign.

In the year I have lived here, I have seen one officer at the intersection and he was giving out tickets for seat belt violations only because he was standing in the middle of the intersection hiding behind the stop sign.

The morning of the accident, I saw an officer pull into the development right in front of me and pull behind some bushes. I was dying to see him pull somebody over for running the stop sign, but after waiting less than 5 minutes to catch somebody, he just took off. The accident occurred the next day. I have no idea where he went.

2) Last summer, about this time, my brother was at a Pho soup place (i.e., a Vietnamese noodle house) and a crazy guy threw a Pho bowl across the restaurant at my brother and struck him in the head. The bowl cracked, cut his head, and cut his forearm, both of which required stitches. My brother stumbled out of the restaurant dazed, confused, and frightened for his life as this man was yelling at him about how the white me took everything away from him. All my brother could do was sit on the curb and try to regain his senses while he stopped the bleeding. A man came up to him and asked him what happened. My brother explained it to him, and the man asked my brother if my brother wanted him to take care of the situation? My brother said no thank you. About this time, an ambulance pulled up on the scene and waited across the street for the police to arrive and watched my brother bleed. At this time, the crazy guy came out and tried to leave. His car had new car tags on it, so my brother ripped the front tag off, and gave it to the police when they finally showed up.

What I would hate to find out is that the police responded so slowly to the call because they had sent 3 LEO's to a school yard for a rock assault. If a rock assault deserved 3 LEO's, so did a Pho bowl assault. Granted, the story didn't occur here or I would really be pissed. I guess you have to live in the area to know whether police response is usually that good or not. If the police department could continually afford to send 3 officer to every minor assault incident, there had better be no aggressive driving and no lack of response to any other incident in the area.

In the end, I still believe that the resources could have been used better elsewhere.

[Hawkeye6]

I know this wasn't Texas, but whatever happened to:

"One riot, one Ranger."?

Three cops and air support? An 11 y/o girl who had thrown/used a rock to defend herself?

Absolutely ridiculous, but it was in CA.

[TheeBadOne]

Yup, if you have a natural bias slanted toward suspicion/negativity toward "The Police", it will always color your view.

And Fabs, I agree. Your apples/oranges stories don't really have any relevance at all here.

TBO

[fabsroman]

TBO,

The apples to oranges stories have plenty of relevance here, because they go to show that you have no idea what else could have been happening in the community while these three officers were attending this "assault".

Essentially, every story involve LEO's is an apples to oranges comparison because no two are alike. The facts are always different, and that is why you have to look at them on an invdividual basis.

As far as my bias is concerned, I try to deal with every encounter on an invdividual basis and not stereotype LEO's in general. Every person is their own person.

LEO's do plenty of good every day. Then there are LEO's like the Police Chief of Montgomery County who decided to write a book for profit about the sniper victims in this county and Virginia. That is terrible. He should have donated all the profits to the victims.

Sometimes LEO's and the police department handle things correctly, other times they don't. They deserve to hear it when they handle things incorrectly, just as the florist at my wedding deserves to be sued for supplying terrible roses.

The police department has a job to do, and they have to perform that job correctly and allocate resources efficiently. Like I said, I would want to hear what the other 911 calls were at that time.

[Hawkeye6]

Incidents like this one clearly show why people are suspicious of or negative towards police.

LEOs have generally created their own stereotypes and live up to them often enough that teh stereotypes are perpetuated and spread throughout communities.

[TheeBadOne]

after throwing a 2-pound rock at 8-year-old Elijah Vang, cutting his forehead

Vang's parents seemed to have no problem with the Police responding to help the injured victim of the assault (their son).

[fabsroman]

They would if they had another son get shot at the same time and there was no police response.

Sure, if I was involved in an auto accident, I wouldn't complain about three officers coming to the scene. My complaint is where it takes a while for the police to respond to the scene.

No victim in his/her right mind would complain about too many LEO's responding. However, my point is that the resources could have been used else where to enforce laws or respond to other issues.

[TheeBadOne]

Originally posted by fabsroman
They would if they had another son get shot at the same time and there was no police response.

Sure, if I was involved in an auto accident, I wouldn't complain about three officers coming to the scene. My complaint is where it takes a while for the police to respond to the scene.

No victim in his/her right mind would complain about too many LEO's responding. However, my point is that the resources could have been used else where to enforce laws or respond to other issues.

Law Enforcement is a job where someone will be unhappy with EVERY single decision you make.
(Ticketed party unhappy, thinks other party should have been ticketed. Nobody ticketed, caller unhappy, thinks ticket deserved. Accident scene, citation for violation to one party, they think other party was more at fault. etc)

Also, as far as "Better used other where", do you have a crystal ball? Do you have information that these Officers were aware of another situation and ignored it? If not, there was nothing else, just speculation (and it falls mighty close to "thinly veiled LEO bashing").

If Police "over respond", nothing happens, nobody gets hurt. If they "under respond" there's potential for bad things to happen.

TBO

[fabsroman]

Very well put, and while I still do not concede the point that the time of 2 officers was wasted, I'd like to start on the next point, how do you explain them charging the girl?

After that, I will start with what a waste of the court's time it was.

[TheeBadOne]

Originally posted by fabsroman
Very well put, and while I still do not concede the point that the time of 2 officers was wasted, I'd like to start on the next point, how do you explain them charging the girl?

1) It's not up to me to explain it
a- It's not you who it must be explained to, but to the court

That said, there IS NOT ENOUGH INFORMATION to make a reasoned judgement (one not colored by haste/bias/assumption/etc).
A point to remember, this was an assualt, not some name calling or spit balling.

TBO

[Hawkeye6]

This is simply a case of a lack of perspective. Nothing else.

The school administrators did not show any judgement. Teh Kalifornia Kops did not show any judgment. If the case is actually persecuted, then I can easily say the State's Liars did not exercise any judgment.

Taken to its logical extreme, this situataion would call for the police and the courts to ajudicate every playground altercation. A situation that is so obvioulsy absurd as to defy anyone to support it.

We simply do not need the police involved in situations like this.

[TheeBadOne]

Originally posted by Hawkeye6
This is simply a case of a lack of perspective. Nothing else.

The school administrators did not show any judgement. Teh Kalifornia Kops did not show any judgment. If the case is actually persecuted, then I can easily say the State's Liars did not exercise any judgment.

Taken to its logical extreme, this situataion would call for the police and the courts to ajudicate every playground altercation. A situation that is so obvioulsy absurd as to defy anyone to support it.

We simply do not need the police involved in situations like this.

2 lb rock + blow to the head + injury = not your usual playground activity (and this is even w/o all the details to make an informed decision).

TBO

FRESNO, Calif. - An 11-year-old girl who threw a rock at a boy during a water balloon fight escaped jail time Wednesday on a felony assault with a deadly weapon charge after lawyers worked out a deal in the emotionally charged case.

Maribel Cuevas was ordered to meet with her young victim and talk about the fight under the deal — reached on the same day the girl was to stand trial in juvenile court. She did not have to plead guilty, and the charges will be dismissed if she stays in school and keeps out of trouble.

Maribel spent five days in juvenile hall and a month under house arrest after throwing a 2-pound rock at 8-year-old Elijah Vang, cutting his forehead after he pelted her with a water balloon in April. The gash required Elijah to receive stitches.


Police responded said they arrested Maribel for resisting arrest and scratching an officer's arm. Police described the rock as "jagged" and measuring 5.5 inches by 3.75 inches.

Top brass on the force defended the response, but others took up Maribel's cause, saying it was no way to treat a childish crime. Supporters gathered outside the court, chanting "Free Maribel," and singing "We Shall Overcome."

As she awaited her hearing, the girl dressed in pink sweat pants, a white sweat shirt and pink flip-flops was handed a bouquet of flowers.

Maribel's father, Martin Cuevas, said in Spanish after the proceeding that his daughter was not a criminal and had acted in self-defense.

"I think everything will be fine," Martin Cuevas said in Spanish. "This way she'll be able to stay with my wife and me and go to school normally."

As part of the agreement, the two children, with their parents present, will talk about what happened. The girl's lawyer said his main goal was to prevent her from pleading guilty to a crime.

"They did not require any admission of wrongdoing, and once that obstacle was removed, the case was settled appropriately," said defense lawyer Richard Beshwate Jr.

Elijah's family, which has since moved away, declined to press charges, but were prepared to testify for the prosecution.

Chief Deputy District Attorney Michelle Griggs said her office decided to proceed without a trial because of the girl's age and because the Vang family wanted the matter resolved so they can return to their neighborhood "in a way that is safe so all these children can coexist together."

Kimberly Nystrom-Geist, a court commissioner who presided over the hearing, said the order requiring Maribel and Elijah to talk about what happened "would be the most appropriate resolution to this matter. It allows Maribel to go back to the neighborhood and make amends."

In an interview Wednesday, Fresno Police Chief Jerry Dyer stood by the actions of his officers.

"It has always been our intention to ensure that the right thing is done. The right thing is not always the popular thing," he said, adding the department has nearly completed its internal review.

"If we truly love our children we need to hold them accountable," he said.

Looks like it was handled appropriately all the way through.

[Hawkeye6]

Looks like it was handled appropriately all the way through.

Sure, if you're a JBT. There is simply NO excuse for three cops and a helicopter in this case. If one cop can't handle it, he should turn in his badge, gun and nightstick. I hear Baskin Robbins has openings.

[TheeBadOne]

Hindsight sure is 20/20, isn't it?