California Police

fabsroman · #1 08-03-2005, 08:13 PM

Can you believe this story. Hard tax dollars being used for stupidity. Not only were police resources used, but court resources too. No wonder the court system is locked up and the police do not have enough funding.

Personally, I think the girl's and boy's parents should have come up with punishments for both kids and it should have been done. Also, I would love to know all the details of the fight (e.g., why it started, had they know each other). The reporting on this one sucks.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050803/...s/girl_charged

TreeDoc · #2 08-03-2005, 10:22 PM

I'm with ya about the Court's and Police time wasted...up to a point. That seemed to be a potentially serious and lethal act for an 11 year old to carry out against an 8 year old. Kids do dumb things but that rock weighed 2 pounds!!.

In 6th grade I was involved in the usual boys chase the girls, girls chase the boys on the schoolyard playground. We were all chuckin' stuff at one another and I picked up this flat rock about the size of a quarter and hucked it in the general direction of the lineup of girls that was persuing us boys. The thing flew threw the air zig-zagging back and forth out of control and drilled the girl I had a crush on for most of my elementary school years right in the front tooth and chipped it! I could hear it from probably 30-40 yards! Oh man was I dead meat.....until the code of the school yard kicked in. She didn't tell on me and I didn't say anything. It all went away. But a 2 pound rock?

Ya notice the common thread here? How kids are just getting more and more violent and at a younger age? It's scary!

fabsroman · #3 08-03-2005, 11:16 PM

Exactly how big is a 2 lb rock? Plus, how hard can a 11 year old throw a 2 lb. rock? Somehow, I need to see all the evidence in this one (e.g., rock, photos of the gashes) to form an opinion on whether or not the public resources used were warranted.

Let's see, three police officers responded, with I would assume three different patrol cars, and a helicopter responded too. Not only that, but the State's Attorney had to get involved. Somehow, I think most, if not all, of those resources could have been used in a better manner.

Send a single officer and he can ask for backup if it is actually needed.

TreeDoc · #4 08-03-2005, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fabsroman
Let's see, three police officers responded, with I would assume three different patrol cars, and a helicopter responded too. Not only that, but the State's Attorney had to get involved. Somehow, I think most, if not all, of those resources could have been used in a better manner.

Send a single officer and he can ask for backup if it is actually needed.

I'm with ya there...that's ridiculous!

DaMadman · #5 08-04-2005, 03:45 PM

The part that I think is totally sad is the comment the father made......
His daughter was not a criminal and acted in self defense.

WHAT BS..... I agree the daughter is not a criminal... she needed her backside tore up with a paddle, but self defense from a water balloon is a 2 pound rock? Nah I don't think so. The father should have whipped her butt and expalined that what she did was WRONG (not self defense) and made her appologise for doing something so stupid and that should have been the end of it.

fabsroman · #6 08-04-2005, 11:29 PM

Agreed, but something tells me that the self defense thing was initially out of the attorney's mouth.

I got to witness an attorney arguing the self defense issue on behalf of his client in Court last week. The guy had punched his wife so hard that her lip was split, bleeding, and the size of a plum. Boy was I happy when the judge found him guilty for using excessive force. I ran into the attorney and his client in the elevator and he acted like the judge was completely out of his mind and asked me if he was wrong for arguing for self defense. I just shrugged my shoulders. Oh yeah, his client was at least 6' tall and well over 200 lbs. and his wife was a little dainty thing. Seeing this crap makes a person sick. I hate criminal law.

denton · #7 08-05-2005, 10:10 AM

Well, there you go... clear evidence that we need to microengrave identification numbers on rocks, so we can trace them in the event of a crime.

Valigator · #8 08-06-2005, 10:16 AM

What happened to Family court? Mediators (spelling) and common sense.....

LoneWolf · #9 08-06-2005, 10:22 AM

I think we should immedaitely start a "Rock Ban Lobby". Obiviously, this little, law abiding girl would never hurt a fly. It was the "evil" rock that caused this.
People don't kill, rocks do!

TheeBadOne · #10 08-06-2005, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fabsroman
Exactly how big is a 2 lb rock? Plus, how hard can a 11 year old throw a 2 lb. rock? Somehow, I need to see all the evidence in this one (e.g., rock, photos of the gashes) to form an opinion on whether or not the public resources used were warranted.

Let's see, three police officers responded, with I would assume three different patrol cars, and a helicopter responded too. Not only that, but the State's Attorney had to get involved. Somehow, I think most, if not all, of those resources could have been used in a better manner.

Send a single officer and he can ask for backup if it is actually needed.

fabsroman · #11 08-06-2005, 02:09 PM

TBO,

Are you trying to make fun of my wiggle room. Okay, based upon the facts that I know as of right now (i.e., those above), and if there are no other extenuating circumstances, it is my opinion that too many resources were used on this matter. There you go, you pinned me down a little more, but I still left myself some wiggle room.

TheeBadOne · #12 08-06-2005, 04:50 PM

Three cars responding to an assault at a school is not something "terrible". Depending on the size of the dept, it's probably quite commendable.

How does the call come out?

Assault with a at a SCHOOL full of CHILDREN with one INJURED. Hmmm, guess you think too many Cops went to Columbine, Pearl Miss, Red Lake, etc, eh?
3 Officers on a scene that may have 80 or more people. Sounds like about right (remember, usually there's a lack of info when these things happen in real time in the real world, better to send what turns out to be too many (in some peoples opinon) than too little.

The helicopter? Well let me ask you the following:

Do you think the chopper was tied down on it's heliport and the pilot was busy with other duties, and then the call came out and he ran to the bird, and lifted off heading directly for the call.

Or do you think the chopper was already in the air (perhaps quite close) and in the interest of public safety took a fly over to see if they could be of any assistance since they were close anyway?

IMHO, just another piece of sensationalist journalism.

TBO

(and I wasn't take a 'shot' at you fabs, just clarifying. I hope/think you know that)

fabsroman · #13 08-07-2005, 01:26 AM

TBO,

Last I checked, it is the 911 operators job to try and figure out what is going on when somebody calls something in.

Do I think too many LEO's were sent to Colombine, nope. But that 911 call or calls probably had something said in them about shots fired, guns being used, or people being killed.

Furthermore, how did it ever get to the point where the police needed to be called? How could an adult at the school not calm the situation down and then telephone 911 to say that an assault happened at the school and he/she needed to file a report and to please send over an officer.

As far as the chopper is concerned, you are probably right that it was already in the air, otherwise it would have taken forever for it to get there.

Now, lets keep on developing this. Last I checked, LEO's had charging discretion. Do you really think that this little girl needed to be charged with assault. I know my brothers have been allowed to go home after bar fights and nobody was charged whatsoever on either side.

When I went to high school, fists fights weren't anything unusual. If the police were to have reacted in this manner, tbey pretty much would have had 3 cruisers, 3 officers, a helicopter, and a mini court at my high school.

Again, we don't have all the evidence, but if I could get my hands on one thing I would love to hear the 911 tape. You say that the call probably goes something like this..., but you cannot assure me that it did.

Again, grey area that we will have to agree to disagree on because we cannot get the evidence.

TheeBadOne · #14 08-07-2005, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fabsroman
TBO,

Last I checked, it is the 911 operators job to try and figure out what is going on when somebody calls something in. -yup, sure is. Any idea what it's like on that end of the phone?

Do I think too many LEO's were sent to Colombine, nope. But that 911 call or calls probably had something said in them about shots fired, guns being used, or people being killed. -yup, they did, eventually, but none of the 1st calls did.

Furthermore, how did it ever get to the point where the police needed to be called? How could an adult at the school not calm the situation down and then telephone 911 to say that an assault happened at the school and he/she needed to file a report and to please send over an officer. (and/or ambulance) -go talk to the good old sue happy folks and attornies who helped make schools completely hands off. I'd love to see a return to 1940-50 type of teaching environment.

As far as the chopper is concerned, you are probably right that it was already in the air, otherwise it would have taken forever for it to get there.

Now, lets keep on developing this. Last I checked, LEO's had charging discretion. -some do (I suspect most do, some don't) Are you saying that from the vantage point of your armchair that you can see there was no basis for charges. Do you really think that this little girl needed to be charged with assault. - I don't know. I wasn't there, I didn't see what was going on, didn't see the victim and injury, nor did I speak to her. I didn't get to hear her behavior record at school and I didn't get to speak to her parents and hear their response. I know my brothers have been allowed to go home after bar fights and nobody was charged whatsoever on either side. -"One time at band camp..." So everyone should be treated like your brother? It was the exact same circumstances in your brother's case?

When I went to high school, fists fights weren't anything unusual. -Times change. Bet you didn't have people high on meth when you went to school either. If the police were to have reacted in this manner, tbey pretty much would have had 3 cruisers, 3 officers, a helicopter, and a mini court at my high school.

Again, we don't have all the evidence, but if I could get my hands on one thing I would love to hear the 911 tape. You say that the call probably goes something like this..., but you cannot assure me that it did.

Again, grey area that we will have to agree to disagree on because we cannot get the evidence. -yup, just that I won't pass judgement with such little informaton. I guess it goes to whether or not you have faith the Officers do the right thing most of the time, or if you always tend to look at any Officer and action with suspicion. In closing:
If it was okay for one of them to go there it sure as heck was okay for three of them to go there.

All the best

fabsroman · #15 08-07-2005, 04:34 PM

Do you really think that this little girl needed to be charged with assault. - I don't know. I wasn't there, I didn't see what was going on, didn't see the victim and injury, nor did I speak to her. I didn't get to hear her behavior record at school and I didn't get to speak to her parents and hear their response. I know my brothers have been allowed to go home after bar fights and nobody was charged whatsoever on either side. -"One time at band camp..." So everyone should be treated like your brother? It was the exact same circumstances in your brother's case?

When I went to high school, fists fights weren't anything unusual. -Times change. Bet you didn't have people high on meth when you went to school either. If the police were to have reacted in this manner, tbey pretty much would have had 3 cruisers, 3 officers, a helicopter, and a mini court at my high school.

At least we can both agree that we don't have all the facts here. However, I am surprised that the police department wouldn't have released anything in their favor to quite the news media (e.g., this girl was a problem in school, she had committed assaults in the past and been given warnings).

I don't believe that LEO's do a spectacular job and I don't believe that they do a terrible job. Each LEO is a different person with a different personality. I like to look at each individual case as just that. I am sure that most of the time they do a great job, everything goes smoothly, and I never hear about it. However, there are those cases where things don't go smoothly and I do hear about it. I think we have already agreed that LEO's are human too.

As far as charging discretion goes, I have been pulled over and let off twice within the last year. Once on the way home from picking up my brothers after a bar fight wherein I forgot to turn on the beams (i.e., I had the parking lights on) after picking them up. I got pulled over by the same LEO that was at the bar and let my brothers go. He approached my truck, asked me if I knew why I was being pulled over, and I explained that I did and that the lights were now on. I also explained where I was coming from, and that is when he looked in the passenger seat and told me to get going.

The other incident happened in Arizona on my way to the Grand Canyon. I was pulled over for doing 68 in a 55 as I just came off the interstate. I was trying to get my cell phone out of my pocket and wasn't paying attention. I saw the officer make the U-turn so I started to slow down and get the renta;'s registration and driver's license ready. He ended up giving me a warning and I made sure I obeyed the speed limit the rest of the week.

I have received 3 speeding tickets in my 18 years of driving, and am fine with two of the ones I received, the first and third. With the second one, the officer was lying on the stand, but the only way for me to prove it was to show that I was actually racing another car and that she had not paced us whatsoever. I was 19 back then, stupid, and pissed that an officer would lie about what happened because she was dead set on me being found guilty.

I experienced the same thing in a couple of other instances with a county police officer charging me with discharging a firearm within 150 ft of a dwelling and with a female game warden charging me with having a loaded gun in the car. The county officer didn't want to hear what actually happened and completely ignored what my father told him. However, he was honest on the stand, which I commend him for, and we were all found not guilty. The female game warden was pissed at me because she thought I knew who shot a mockingbird on opening day of dove season and I kept telling her that I didn't. So, she said she was going to charge all of us with it, and I responded that she would still have to prove who it was. That really pissed her off, so she wrote me up for having a loaded gun in the car and she lied at trial. She said she was 20 ft away from me when I got out of the car and she never heard me "rack" a shell in the gun. Well, if she were 20 ft. away, she would have been able to tell I was shooting an o/u and know that I didn't have to rack anything when I got out of the car. There were several other lies too.

Anyway, I think I already told you about the above stories and have said a bunch of times that there are good and bad in every profession just as sure as there are good and bad people, and there always will be.

At the end of the day, maybe life is a lot worse in schools than when I was going to school, but somehow I doubt it is that bad in an elementary school. If this girl was 11, she was probably in 6th grade. Without hearing the 911 tapes, I am sticking to 3 LEO's, 3 cruisers, a helicopter, and assault charges being a little much.