Schindlers list

[foto]

Can't understand everyones support for killing her. No one knows what she would have wanted. The husbands claim that he knew she would have wanted to die came up 7 years after the accident. How come he didn't say anything earlier?

The real issue here is that a judge decided that someone's life wasn't worth living so he ordered her to be killed. I have a friend who had a stroke that lives a life not much better than hers. Should a judge be allowed to kill him? Who decides that? My friend needs someone to help him eat which is not much different than a feeding tube. Should a judge be allowed to order that everyone stops feeding him, cuz his no good wife & kids wants him dead already. ( I bought him a dvd player and went back a month later and it was in his college age son's room, a real little bast***Wife moved out over 5 years ago but still hasn't divorced him and he doesn't have the heart for it.)

This wasn't the same as stopping a ventilator or withholding medicine in the case where they were suffering from a fatal illness. This was a healthy person who could have lived for untold years and who knows what may have happened in the future.

Also in those cases where fatal illnesses are involved they usually put the person on a morphine drip and they depart while in lala land. Here they starved a person who may have been able to feel something without any pain medication because if they did give her pain medication it would have meant that she was able to feel and that wouldhave defeated their arguments of brain death.

In this case considering that noone knew what she wanted and there was a possibility that she was aware at some level and might improve you err on the side of caution and let her live. You don't try and imagine what she wanted since we all imagine a little differently. No court should have the power to kill someone because they don't feel their life is worth living. They did not let her die which I might not have such a problem with, but actively sought to kill her which I do have a problem with. IMHO Take care all.

[Valigator]

Just remember the family is what brought this to blows not Terri....I doubt very much being a woman that she would have wanted what her parents made her endure.....

[foto]

"I doubt very much being a woman that she would have wanted what her parents made her endure....."

I guess thats my issue, that little bit of doubt you have. If a judge is going to order to have someone killed, there shouldn't be any doubt, at least not the amount that we witnesed in this case. Without clear and convincing evidence of the person's wishes you err on the side of caution.

Your posts seem to infer that she was aware and suffering in her vegetative state and it was a merciful thing to kill her but that is not what they claimed and not why the court ordered her to be killed. I understand you but that isn't the reason for her death which is why we have the uproar.

If the court said we find based upon the evidence and testimony that it was her wish to die if in this state and gave her a morphine drip and took out the tube, that would have been fine.

If the court said We dont' know what she would want to do so we will leave her alone with her feeding tube, that would have been fine.

But what the court really did here was tell us -We are not sure what she wanted so we will determine whether her life is worth living. they then deterrmined that it wasn't and ordered her to be killed. It seems even the court didn't place too much value on the husband's testimony.Thats why they ordered so many tests to determine her mental state and viewed so many hours of video and had all the experts testify as to her condition, so the court could justify its actions. Thats why I have a problem with it. Talk about an activist court, if you don't provide the evidence it needs to kill someone, don't worry, it will find it all by itself. Take care.

(no more rants from me on this topic, gotta get ready for opening day of trout season this saturday)

[fabsroman]

Foto,

That viewpoint is pretty good and I don't think I have looked at it quite from that angle. I have been sliding from one side to another on this whole issue. At first, I was all for pulling the feeding tube. However, I then decided against it. Now, I have absolutely no clue where I stand on this issue because I think I am missing 99% of the facts.

I thought she was on a morphine drip. If she wasn't, I think that is completely wrong. My problem is that we don't really know what a person in a vegetative state can and cannot feel because I do not think anybody has ever come around from it. Hence, the hospice center should have erred on the side of caution and provided the morphine drip. I cannot imagine that the Court's Order would have stated that no morphine drop be provided. That is way out of line for the Court to decide.

I kind of agree with you about the Court relying on experts. However, they were needed to a certain degree. They were needed initially to show that Terri needed a guardian appointed for her. As far as the rest of the issue is concerned, I would guess that both sides, the Schindlers and Schiavo would have brought medical experts to testify in their case. Judge probably didn't believe any of them because they get paid from the side that they are testifying for, so he appointed a court medical expert that would be paid by the court to ensure that he/she is unbiased. This was a tough decision for the Court and I am sure there were a million things on the Judge's mind.

One thing that has to be considered is the public policy aspect on this whole thing, and that was my initial reason for pulling the feeding tube. How many people every year could be kept alive through artificial means? Probably a lot. How many of them stand a chance of pulling through? Probably very little if any. So, what happens if they do not have a Living Will or Advance Health Care Directive? Do we just keep them on life support forever to see if science will ever come up with a cure? If so, who is going to foot that bill? Everybody is already complaining about taxes and I know way too many people that are cheating on their taxes. Could you imagine that cost? Should we have court proceedings on every one to see what the family members think. I doubt all the family members would be for pulling the plug, for lack of a better term. So, how much of the Court system's time do we take up with this? Remember, the Court system is also funded by tax dollars.

Quite honestly, I think that every state in the union should pass a law stating that if a person has no Living Will or Advance Health Care Directive in place and they do not have the mental capacity to make medical decisions for themselves, it is presumed that they would favor death over artificial life support if they are in a vegetative state, coma, or suffering from a terminal illness. This would cause people to get those documents drafted if they have a wish to be kept alive under those circumstances.

This is a tough subject and a tough case.

As far as your friend is concerned, I cannot stand women and children that are like that. The only reason she is staying married to him is so that she can get everything when he passes away instead of only getting half now. The longer I live, the sicker I get of people.

[Slim-Zippy]

I don't know all the facts and I doubt anyone will ever be able to sort it out. There is enough smoke around Micheal Shaivo that if I was the woman married to him now, I would be looking for some place to get away from him. But the slander and lies that can get started in a case like this can make decent people appear to be evil and evil people appear to be angels.

The only truth I know about the whole ordeal is that Terry Shiavo was used by a lot of people and will be continued to be used even though she is dead. The whole situation stinks of all the crud our society has become infected with. I hope Terry is living with dignity and grace now.

There are modern ways to check for brain activity, a PET scan is one way, and they were never done with Terry. These tests can be very conslusive as to cognitive avtivity of the brain. It "appears" that Micheal didn't want anyone to know if there was brain activity. But again, maybe maybe a doctor gave some bad advice or new that she was brain dead without a test. Some Doctors are sure not above playing God for for their own selfish reasons.

I would not want to be tortured as Terry was during the last years of her life. From what "information" I have heard she lived in a dreadful isolation with as little medical care and outside stimulation as legally possible.

God bless Terry Schaivo. I beleive she desrves it.
John

[Classicvette63]

Fabs, I heard about the 10 mil offer on msnbc. My point about the dog was, if you had a sick dog you would not think twice about ending it's suffering. Now if you shot a perfectly fine dog, that might get you in trouble. Either way, my point wasn't about committing a crime or a potential crime.

I just really didn't like all of the "spin" coming from the schindlers. When the feeding tube was removed they complained that she was suffering because morphine wasn't being administered. Once they started giving morphine, the schidlers claimed that the hospice was going to OD Terri to kill her. Then they claimed that Michael wanted Terri silenced because he beat her. If they truly had suspicions of that, they should have brought that little tid bit up 15 years ago, not after the tube was removed. Clearly it was just a mean vicious ploy aimed at slandering Michael and getting sympathy on thier side.

It was a sorry episode made worse by politics, greed, grandstanding, vindictiveness and hurt feelings.

[fabsroman]

"It was a sorry episode made worse by politics, greed, grandstanding, vindictiveness, and hurt feelings."

No disagreement with you there Classic. I think there is enough ammo on both sides to pick whichever side you want and find reason for it. If the parents thought that Michael was beating her and that was the reason for her condition, why didn't they object to his being appointed as the guardian?

There are many questions and the answers are fleeting and almost always changing.

[8X56MS]

I think the parents acted in a misguided manner from the beginning. Their efforts towards condeming Terri to a forced existance as a vegetable was a despicable act. I have supported Michael all the way on this.
Back in 1990, my family went through much the same ordeal as the Schiavos. The difference though, was that we all agreed that my Dad would not have wanted to be kept alive, and unconscious. Once the Neuro specialist, and the other members of the Medical consultant team agreed that there was no recovery, we ended it.
The only real surprise for me in all this though, was the right wing folks, who decry any 'gumment' interference in their lives, embracing 'big brother' to step in, and counteract the wishes of the wife and husband.
I consider myself very conservative, but on this issue, I really did, and continue to feel, that my President, my Governor, and many others, far exceeded their authority, and their positions.
I am NOT a big fan of the courts, but in this case, justice was, indeed, done.