Just a thought

[Valigator]

You know in my book, some things dont have to be as difficult as people like to make them....no easy solutions uh? well common sense has and always will be the best way....we have a pool of labor that is being under utilized right under our noses...cant force them to work? who said? and who says even if thats the case it has to stay that way? Employers want to pay minimum wage? OK seems thats still more money than the inmates are getting now...most work release programs at least here in Florida has the state as the employer, parks, management areas etc...lets not digress..lately I have watched programs where companies want and need the lessor paid employees to stay in business...because of outsourcing etc...my suggestion is to go to the well we already have and make it pay for all of us...a hundred years ago immigrants were the backbone of our society...today they are crippleing us with the burden of accomodating their culture...go back to basics...go back to common sense....because what we have isnt working......

[Nulle]

Your so right we do live in a different part of the country and there is really no lumping on this. You pick the ones that want to work and go with it and on the same area you Pay them the going rate for the work they do !
I knew a guy that would get DOC kids to work for him and then he would pay them **** and work the heck out of them and pay them very little. He was no better in my book then the kids working for him. Slave Farm !
In different areas they do have work farms where these people are required to work for the jail. I don't think we have that in SD.
Work release in my state is generally when they already have a job at hand and instead of losing it they are allowed to get out.
The ones I deal with are the folks that don't have a prior job and would like to do something with their life. The ones that are just out to be out are weeded out and I send them back and they know that from the start.

[fabsroman]

Nulle,

I think what you are doing is great. Work release in Maryland is the same as it is in South Dakota and different from Florida. Those with jobs when they go in get to go to work and that is about it. For the most part it is house arrest with the ability to work during the day.

The problem with immigrant labor is that a lot of employers get away with paying them less than minimum wage. My granite client's payroll is estimated to be $210,000 for this year. If he could get away with paying half of what he pays by paying illegals, don't you think he would want to save $105,000? Of course, it is illegal to hire illegal aliens, but a lot of other things are illegal and business owners try to get away with them anyway. It is illegal to claim tax deductions on a Schedule C when the expenses are personal expenses, but I see plenty of people doing it and/or trying to do it.



TD,

As far as being barely legal, there is always that grey area where one side might think it is legal and the other side thinks it is illegal. That is about where these guys fabricating granite fall.

[Hawkeye6]

Prisoner Labor? Isn't that one of the things they do in China?

[ghost stalker]

yeh, wouldn't want to make someone who did something wrong pay for thier acts by doing something positive for the ones they hurt! or actually being penalized for a crime...that would be nuts we should give them a chance to get a free education, nothing to start with when they get out or a free ckeck from the tax payers. lets give some people who illegally got onto this continent a free pass to work bacause we don't want to step on the CON's toes and make him upset.........wwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

everyone says that the punishments are not harsh enough as it is. put the cons to work and give them a real chance at working for a buck and a futur rather than sitting on thier asses making up frivilus lawsuits that just back-up the system.


just a lil ranting but i feel the crooks got it too easy. they should discuraged rather than incouraged. blah blah blah

[Valigator]

Boy oh Boy do I love this website....stir the pot and the fire just burns........someone made the comment they didnt want an enbezzler on the payroll, another didnt think inmates would be hired...look the jobs I am talking about and the jobs you hear the most about needing cheap labor are not in the main office...OK...they are in agriculture....they are in the seafood business...peeling crab....they are in dry cleaning ....I can go on and on....they need this labor force because so called American citizens are not gonna work for 5-6-7-8-and in some areas 10 bucks an hour.....benefits....shoot I have worked in some of the highest end employers in Ft. Lauderdale and I am spending more and more on my own benefits, unless I am sucking them up in the public service industry....which I have never been envolved in....the biggest nut in my state is Department of Corrections....not all inmates are serial killers....but sending them back in mainstream for 36 cents an hour on public property is ludicrous...versus 5 dollars an hour on an illegal who disappears into society within 6 months...smuggles his family in...and sucks our healthcare to sheads...uninsured...being paid cash every week because there is no paper trail...and sucking the life blood out of the rest of us....look I am not immigrant bashing....I am illegal alien bashing.....the solution is under our noses...and nobody sees it....Inmates need to pay back what they suck up...either in restitution....parole or supervision payments...and being released back into our society with 50 bucks and a bus ticket seems to be a revolving door for our system....give them the ability to save for release...maybe they wont come back to haunt us in 10 months...which seems to be the standard reoffending time...

[fabsroman]

Val,

Do you think these guys would be in jail if they really wanted to work. Most of the non-violent offenders are in jail because they do not want to work. I have a client that quit her job making $20,000 a year, up from the previous year's pay of $14,000, just because there were no benefits and she had to do too much work. Right now, she is unemployed, on food stamps, and receiving unemployment because she had her boss write her a letter saying that he was laying her off because he could not afford her. She is the type of person that just does not want to work.

My motto is that there is always a job available doing something if you want to work. However, a lot of people do not want to work for less than a certain amount and others do not want to do certain jobs.

That is why manual labor jobs get paid a good amount of money. Nobody wants to do them anymore. The theme in the US is college education and even post college education. Those graduates do not want to do manual labor. When I got out of undergrad, the starting salary for an accountant with the then Big 6 was $30,000. Well, my brother had been earning about $85,000 to $100,000 painting cars since he was 18 years old. I was 22 when I graduated, which meant that he was already $400,000 ahead of me before I even started working. Luckily, I didn't have to pay for college myself, or I would have really been in the hole.

[Valigator]

We are really not on the same page here...if I was sitting in a 6x9 cell and had the opportunity to make 6 bucks an hour...I would go for it, especially if I knew I had to make my way when I got out....plus my gaintime date might, just might be dependant on my incentive to work... and my basic nature told me I didnt want to VOP because I had no funds...

[BILLY D.]

VAL, VAL, VAL.

YOU ARE REALLY STARTING TO DISAPPOINT ME YOUNG LADY. YOU ARE UTILIZING WORDS LIKE COMMON SENSE AND RESPONSIBILITY, TWO WORDS LIBERALS CAN'T STAND, AND ALMOST IN THE SAME BREATH. SHAME, SHAME.

CONSIDER YOURSELF VERBALLY CHASTISED AND GO FORTH AND SIN NO MORE.

ON THE LIGHTER SIDE, HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF A LADY NAMED CYNTHIA HOLDEN? SHE IS FROM ST. PETERSBURG. SHE HAS AN ORGANIZATION CALLED ADVOCATE FOR VICTIMS. I WAS JUST WONDERING WHAT HER SPIEL IS. ANY FEEDBACK?

HAVE A GOOD ONE AND PLEASE WATCH YOUR LANGUAGE.

[BILLY D.]

VAL

AN ADDENDUM TO THE ABOVE POST.

WE USED TO HAVE A TENET IN THE MILITARY, " IF YOU CAN'T DAZZLE THEM WITH BRILLIANCE, BAFFLE THEM WITH BS, AND TECHNICALITIES." WORKS EVERY TIME.

KEEP SMILING PRETTY LADY. AS ONE OF OUR POSTERS SAYS, "DON'T LET THE BASTARDS GRIND YA DOWN."

[denton]

Val, I used to have a church assignment that took me to the Nevada State Prison a couple of times a month. When I was done with it, it was all I could do to calmly stroll to the gate. Man, I hated that place... and I knew that they were going to let me out when I decided to go.

One part of the prison population is just plain dumb. There are a LOT of 85 IQ's in that place.

Another part of the prison population is meaner than the proverbial junkyard dog.

A surprising number of the inmates are both dumb and mean.

Now there were also a few people who had made mistakes, and were making their way back, which is very admirable, especially considering the environment they were in.

Most of them have brains that are simply not wired like yours. You make the connection between honest labor, self worth, self improvement, and being a contributing member of society. Don't expect that from the general prison population.

Most of us behave because we have an internal moral compass. A good share of prison inmates have no such thing, and will do anything they think they can get away with. They behave as well as they do, because they are afraid of consequences. They do not care in the slightest what their actions do to you.

The ones that come out of prison better than they went in are the minority, and have my admiration. If we're trying to prevent recidivism, I think we're doing it all wrong.

[fabsroman]

I second Denton. He pretty much said what I was going to say.

Val,

You are thinking like yourself, not like "them." Over the past three years, I have sat and pondered why some people do what they do.

Why does my granite client start a business that is doing really well, but not want to listen to his accountant/lawyer regarding worker's comp, general liability insurance, the procedure for making deposits, the procedure for making transfers to payroll, the requirements that he complete an I-9 form when he hire a person, the requirement that everybody he pays be on payroll, etc. On top of that, I cannot understand how he continues to get into trouble. He was found guilty of Drinking & Driving in June 2004 and given 3 years probation. By September 2004 he was charged with 2nd degree assault in a domestic disturbance. I got the State's Attorney to drop the charge for lack of evidence. Come February 2005 he was charged with one count of disorderly conduct and 4 counts of 2nd degree assault, three of which were against police officers while watching a band at a bar. Mind you, his DWI probation called for no drinking. I ended up getting him a plea bargain for disorderly conduct and the judge gave him probation before judgment for 11 months with 12 AA meetings required. On top of that, he knew he didn't have a driver's license because I told him to go to MVA and get a new copy because they took it away during his DWI. When he went, he found out it was suspended, but continued to drive around until he got pulled over and received 6 tickets.

Now, sit back and try to think about why a person would do all this. Mind you, he is making $200,000+ in gross income.

Now, he runs his business almost the same way he runs his life. He has about $20,000 in receivables that have been out there for over 4 months, but he doesn't want to pay me to try and collect them. He barely listened to me about paying estimated taxes in April. He also thinks that his employees will run the business if he ends up in jail. Yeah right. Most of the time I call his cell phone or his business line, the voice mail boxes are full and I cannot leave a message. I have had customers complain about his customer service, including my sister, my dad, and a couple of friends that I referred to him. However, at the end of the day his price is the lowest because he doesn't pay worker's comp, general liability, and other things that he should pay.

I have already told you about the lady that quit her job for absolutely no reason that I could think of.

How about my brother. He makes $100,000 a year, has a decent amount in his savings account earning 2%, but decides to keep a $5,000 balance on his credit card because he doesn't want to make that lump sum payment even though he has the money in his savings account. I believe his quote was "It hurts too much to write that check." Mind you, he is paying 19.9% on the credit card balance. Doesn't really make sense to me.

I have plenty of stories about clients and my brothers that do not make sense. If you can just make sense of the above, then I will believe that COMMON SENSE could possibly solve all of our social problems.

If everybody had common sense and a decent upbringing, I don't think there would be a tenth of the problems that there currently are in this nation. Sad thing is they don't.

My brother and I were raised by the same parents and he and I are completely different. If my other brother didn't take care of him, he would be a disaster.

Yes, common sense usually helps, but trying to apply it to situations where people lack common sense is rather tough.

Now, I do not even try to think about why people do what they do, I only worry about whether or not their checks are going to clear.

[foto]

Before you jump on this source of free labor maybe a few other things to consider.

The cost of the "free labor". While 5 bucks on the books may sound cheap, what's the real cost.Administration of this thing, cost of security,feeding and housing them, etc etc. With a real worker the only outlay is what you pay him. With these guys , sure they sound cheap, but the real cost is being sucked up by
the state. What si the real return. The state feeds, houses and clothes him and must manage them and provide security. Is that really cheaper than an hourly worker adding in the security the employer will need to prevent any inmate run scams. Sounds like the taxpayer is getting screwed. If they used the money to pay all costs of maintaining the prisoners to make jails pay for themselves I think we would quickly see how they can't even pay for themselves and its just a corporate handout.

Secondly and more importantly, doesn't anyone remember our history? Freemen, you, me etc are now going to have to compete with slave labor? Wars have started for this. The only possible result is that us free people will have to accept the same working conditions as a slave or face unemployment. To accept otherwise would be tantamount to the south's claim in the Civil war that slavery in a few states was acceptable. Slave labor is not acceptable and we fought it before not for the slave's benefit, but for our own. What freeman would want or could compete with slaves? Inmates, mexicans, etc nothing good can come from it. Jobs that nobody wants? Sorry, what you mean are jobs that noone wants for the slave wages you are paying. Start paying the wage the market demands and you won't have any problem.

If it has to be done, then limit their employment ro industries where the cost of labor makes up more than 25% of the cost of the final product. Those types of industries have already been surrendered to the foreign countries so if they take any jobs away from anyone it will be from foreigners outside the US. It makes no sense to give them jobs that Free americans would take if given the chance. Those deals with corporations for answering phones etc are just a corporate handout at the expense of the taxpayers. Somebody is getting rich off it. Do you really think monstro Corp gives a dam* about helping convicts when they don't even give a hoot about you? How about making the prisoners do the jobs of migrants, like spending 12 hours a day picking asparagus till your hands bleed for two bucks a bushel? At least that has some sort of karmic justice to it. IMHO

[Nulle]

Hey Val start up another barn burner with what the mayor of Miami wants to do with the Preditors ? lmao

[fabsroman]

foto,

I think Val's entire point was to use inmate labor to replace immigrant labor in the agricultural fields. My point is that most inmates would rather sit in jail than work for $2 an hour picking crops out of fields.

I went to a party once where a guy introduced himself as a professional criminal. We got to talk and it turns out that he was a car thief. His reason for being a car thief was that there was no other place that he could possibly make $60,000 a year without a college education. Obviously, he hadn't talked to my brothers, both of whom are making 6 figures legally without a college education.

My point is that most criminals do not want to work hard for a living. If they did, more likely than not, they wouldn't be in jail.