abrasive reloads ???

[Big joe]

I saw a bullet , i think in the cabelas catalogue, that has abrasives and treats the bore when it is fired. Does this work? And if so, what exactly does it do to the bore and will it improve accuracy? Oh also, will it help older bores. Any info on this would be helpful.

Thanks

[Ol` Joe]

I saw a bullet , i think in the cabelas catalogue, that has abrasives and treats the bore when it is fired. Does this work? And if so, what exactly does it do to the bore and will it improve accuracy? Oh also, will it help older bores. Any info on this would be helpful

They are supposed to polish the bore and help with fouling and improve accuracy. They also round off the rifleing edges and extend the leade as they do it. I had a smith lap a bore for me (factory) that did the same thing as the bullets, and it did improve the ease of cleaning and reduce fouling. The barrel wasn`t any more accurate after then before that I could honestly swear to. The rifle did however seem to shoot more tight groups before they started opening then prior to the lapping. This is more as in 5-6 good groups, instead of 3-4 before they went down hill.

I`ve seen a couple different brands advertized, but haven`t used any of them. I personally don`t think much of them, but others swear they do wonders.

[Rocky Raab]

The process is exactly like sanding out your barrel. You start with a few shots (always much reduced loads, BTW!) with coarse abrasives, then several more with successively finer grits. Even if it does polish the bore, it always dulls the lands and removes some of the throat - and those are both bad things.

I'd only consider doing this with an extremely rough or extremely fouled barrel. An example might be a military surplus rifle with a poor bore. But I'd treat it as the "last chance" technique for any other gun. In other words, if you are having trouble with a barrel, I'd try EVERYTHING else before I tried the abrasive bullet process.

You have a lot to lose and only a theoretical chance of something to gain with these things.

[Cal Sibley]

I agree that using the abrasive bullets to lap a bore should be a last resort. I think the most noted is "Tubbs Final Finish". We may reach a point of havig to resort to it though. I find some of todays rifles from US manufacturers pitiful. This all encompassing obsession with the "botom line" certainly isn't helpful to the buyer. Remington was a cut above, but they're no better than the rest now. My last one was a Remington 700BDL in .25-06 that shoiyuld have never got out of the factory. Just one mans opinion. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

[Rocky Raab]

I truly think the rifles with the best barrels being made today (non-custom, of course) are from Savage.

I'm shooting one now that hardly fouls at all, is very smooth on the patch and cleans easily. Shoots, too!

[PJgunner]

I have a Winchester Model 70 Featherweight in 7x57 Mauser that had a bore that looked like a cross section of the Rocky Mountains. The rifle was accurate enough, but it would foul so badly in just ten rounds that accuracy would go down the tube. (No pun intended.) Contacting Winchester about the problem along with some other details got a snotty, "Take it to a gunsmith."
This rifle fouled so badly the it would take three cleaning sessions with Sweets 7.62 and JB Bore past, two sessions of 8 hours and the last one 4 hours to get that bore clean.
When I got the kit, it had three grits, coarse, medium and fine. You were supposed to do ten shots with each grit, with thorough cleaning between each grit. Rather than using a jacketed bullet, I used cast lead bullets and only did 5 shots with each grit. My thought was I could shoot the cast bullets much more slowly that a jacketed one. I also figured that when a gunsmith lapped a bore, he used a lead slug on the cleaning rod impregnated with the grit to do the job. The results were good enough that now it takes only a short while to clean the gun and the copper fouling, while still present is no different than what I get from my other rifles. Accuracy seems to have improved only slightly.
I think that firelapping does have a place in the scheme of things just as long as one realizes the potential pitfalls when using the process. In the case of my 7x57, it was a win win situation as I was ready to sell off a rifle I really liked and wanted to keep.
My suggestion would be this. If you have a really rough bore that fouls as badly as mine did, trying the grit coated bullet should clean things up. But, if the instructions call for ten shots of each grit, only use five. You can always go back with the other five each if it is necessary. Hopefully, it won't be.
Paul B.

[Cal Sibley]

This is merely one mans opinion, but I wonder if we're going the same route with firearms that we went with automobiles. There's all this obsession with the bottom line and bean counters in recent years. It's not inconceiveable that we stop buying US firearms on favor of Sakos, Tikka, CZ, Howa and the like. I've always been a big fan of Remington, but they're no better now than the rest. I bought 3 in a row, new, that required glass bedding the action, barrel floating and trigger work, an extra $250., just to make them shoot as well as my older Remington 700s. My most recent, a Remington 700BDL in .25-06 is a real loser. It turned me off Remington for all time, and I don't think I'm alone. The only one making an effort today seems to be Savage, and that's still a crapshoot. I'm curious as to others views on this. It isn't meant to start a flaming war. I'm really concerned. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

[Evan03]

Rocky is that savage pushn hornady ammo or are you reloading. im curious.


cal

i truly belive that 2506 can shoot. wether in my dreams or yours i dunno but i belive something has got be being over looked. its just got to shoot


two of my last remingtons are no longer with me. one was 700adl in 204 and the other 22/250 vs sf. both shot verywell and printed little groups on paper.
i did my own trigger adjusting. all remingtons need triggers adjuststed wether made in 1876 or 2005. dang good thing they are adjustable.

[Rocky Raab]

Evan, it's handloads only. No factory ammo available.

It's a new caliber that Savage is thinking of introducing. A 5mm/20-cal in a case designed by rocket motor engineers.

[Catfish]

First on fire lapping. I have done this with a few barrels now and have come to the concluesion that in all cases it will make the barrel easer to clean. In some, but not many it will improve accuracy. The greatest accuracy improvement have found were in a .257 AI that I had built and could get no groups at all untill fire lapped, and from a .17 Rem. barrel that became fouled with Molly and I could not get cleaned any other way. Would I recomand fire lapping?? Only if you have tried everything else you can think of to get the barrel to shoot, it does put alot of extra wear on the barrel and shorten it life. New barrels that foul badly will get better the more they are fired and I don`t think it`s worth the extra wear to fire lap for easier cleaning.
As for barrels on new gun today I have limited experance, but in the recent past I had 2 new T/C barrels in .204 and neather would shot worth a crap and both foulled badly. I bought the first barrel and sent it back to T/C and they sent me a second barrel and said the first was out of specs. The second barrel was just like the first. I traded it on a CZ 527 in .204. Excellant shooter and barrel just don`t seem like it ever needs to be cleaned, love it. I also have a .17 Rem. that was rebarreled by Rem. on a recall. I wish I had kept the old barrel, it throught was showing quite abit of wear, but it still shot fairly good groups. The new barrel will not group anything I`ve tried so far, and I`ve tried several different powders and bullets. Like Cal, Rem. will have a hard time getting me to buy another of their new guns.

[Evan03]

Rocket motor engineers. hmmmmmmm???

i knew exackly what info i was wanting when i asked about the savage. and you came through like a shineing star. thanks