Mr Roy's Rant!!!!

[royinidaho]

Ok kiddies, its time to learn about our new friend the widdle woof....

Here

[fabsroman]

I take it that you are irate that Idaho is trying to teach people about wolves instead of exterminating them. If I were you, I would be hoping for a management type of hunt that allowed hunters to take a certain number of wolves every year. I don't think I would be interested in killing a wolf or a big cat, but I can understand your view because I wouldn't hesitate to kill a bear. I have killed plenty of foxes and probably wouldn't hesitate to kill a coyote if given the chance. Just found out that we have coyotes in Rock Creek Park which is in the middle of Washington, DC.

For some reason, I just have some serious respect for wolves and big cats. I've had calendars of them on my wall for several years. Don't ask me why. Kind of like people asking me why I like to hunt. If you don't understand, there is nothing I can say that will make you understand.

[BILLY D.]

gee

i feel so warm and fuzzy all over.

what a bunch of propaganda. herr goebbels would be proud.

[royinidaho]

Fabs,

Not irrate due to not exterminating vs teaching. I have no hard feelings that way.

I notice the same tendency to "sell" the wolf thing from a single view point to the youth of the state.

The inferrences are similar to that animal movie coming out today or tomorrow. I don't like what I see there either. It might be a fun flick but when we place human tendencies in animal characters or wolves we are doing someone an injustice.

It's not that I 'mind' wolfes themselves, but the manner in which they were unleashed and continue to be promoted.

[M.T. Pockets]

Roy, I think I share your views pretty closely. I don't have a deep seated hate for wolves. I don't want to kill them all, but I didn't agree at all with reintroducing them in areas where they haven't been for 100 years. Not at all. Man has screwed up the whole ecosystem so much that introducing wolves is going to have an entirely different impact than it did when they used to be there. To much development has impacted the areas where game animals live, especially in the winter time. I don't like to see this propoganda geared towards our youth though, telling them at a young age how special wolves are and getting all warm & fuzzy. If you want to see it even worse, go to the International Wolf Center in Ely, MN. I've been there, I was expecting some general information on wolves in the ecosystem and they did that, but it is almost a cult like worship of them. I've seen it in Jackson, Wyoming too.

I find myself having to defend myself, and maybe I sound selfish, but I don't like having to compete as a hunter with an unlimited, completely protected wolf population. Sound selfish ? Sorry. I know upland bird hunters that promote shooting fox and other predators, I know waterfowl hunters that promote shooting skunks & racoons and other predators that eat eggs on the nest and they don't have to apologize to anybody. Nobody feels bad if someone shoots a coyote, but suggest killing a wolf and it's a different story.

I don't like reintroduced wolves, bad idea. Now that they're there I wish the Feds would turn over control to the states to manage them as a game/trophy animal. There's no better way to manage a population than through legal sport hunting. It gives some folks (mostly non-hunters) warm & fuzzy feelings that it is a natural ecosystem to have all these large predators managing the ecosystem so hunters aren't necessary anymore. I don't mind hearing or seeing a wolf in the wild, but by wild I mean truly wild where they've always been like Alaska, Canada and parts of Northern Minnesota. I've seen them in all these places and it's exciting. I've also seen a reintroduced wolf in Wyoming, it looked like something that escaped from a zoo. These are a strain from Canada, not the true wolf that used to live in the west.

[fabsroman]

I agree completely with the sport hunting of the wolves as soon as their population size allows, and that might actually be right now. I'm not a biologist, so I wouldn't know one way or another.

Yeah, I am a waterfowl hunter and I do shoot foxes whenever I have the opportunity. With that said, there is a fox season here in Maryland, but I have no idea what the actual dates are.

Somehow, I am willing to bet that foxes and coyotes are a little more numerous than wolves. Heck, I have two foxes that roam this little 5 acre wetland that we have between condo buildings and townhouses. It bothers the hell out of me that they are out there because Nitro almost got into it with one of them once. The fox had the brains to get out of dodge before Nitro could catch him though.

Deer cause the same issue around here, but most of the people are in support of their reduction/killing. Deer are the main cause of auto accidents in the county I live in.

[DaMadman]

Let me explain a little something about the wolf and it's reintroduction. The wolf was wiped out because of human ignorance and the bleediung heart idiots that thought that "predators are bad" any animal that is killing other animals that man is using for food needs to be wiped of the face off the earth. 100 years ago the wolf was in direct competition with man for food. Elk, deer, and many furbearer species so man as a whole decided to wipe the wolf off the map. This was a piss poor way to handle things and now the wolf has been reintroduced and is on the Federally protected species list. Hurray for the wolf.

The ONLY thing Idaho has to do to open up a managed hunting season is come up with a Federally approved Game plan to keep the wolf population in check without getting carried away and risking the wolve's future.

I am not going to go into this very deep but knowing what I know and considering the source of my information I am going to go out on a limb here and say that anyone in IDAHO that is complaining about the wolf population in one form or another needed to be on top of sending their politicians letters and EMails and being pro-active over the past few years or they really do not have a whole lot of room to be complaining. Tell your politicians and your Wild life Managment Departments to get off their butts and get that Wolf Management program together and get it approved by the Fed, Wildlife management folk.

That is all Thanks for the time

[royinidaho]

DaMadman,

Many in Idaho, Wyoming and Montana were vocal to the local and State politicians. It did no good. Reintroduction was going to happen regardless.

It would have been well if the resident wolf population could have been increased. I wonder why they did not increase on their own over the decades previous to reintroduction.

Since reintroduction was with the Canadian Grey Wolf instead of with the one that was native to the area the ones that were native to the state have become extinct. They have all been killed by the larger 're'introduced wolf.

Additionally, management of the wolf in Idaho is under state control.

The first wolf shot under the new rules was killed by a rancher in Driggs last week. Everything done was inaccordance with the rules of engagement as documented by the subsequent investigation. As said on TV, it was a good shoot.

[PJgunner]

Madman. Pardon me, but I have a tendency to disagree with some of what you say. I have no clue as to the wolf situation in Idaho, but if it is anything like what's happening here in Arizona, methinks we hunters have been given short shrift.
The ecofreaks, bunny huggers and certain government agencies have conspired to reintroduce an animal that is a game killing machine. Consider this, especially if you like to hunt.Wolves kill game in competition with hunters. In certain parts of Arizona where wolves have been reintroduced, big game, IE deer and elk populations have gone into a slow but very steady decline. Part of it can probably be attributed to our now very severe drought, but wolf depredation has also taken a large toll on the game. On my last elk hunt, I not only saw a pack of wolves, but actually had them tracking me. It was close to dusk and I was walking up a logging road when I notced them just off the road sticking to cover maybe 15 to 20 fet away. I'm thinking, "Wow! Cool, look at the wolves." I then decided as it was getting a bit too dark to take a responsible shot to head back down the road to where my friends were waiting for me. When I reversed course, so did the wolves. When I got close to where my friends were talking and laughing, they melted off into the underbrush.
Now this question has to come up. Were they just curious, or were they stalking me? Damned if I know. I wasn't too worried about their presence until I realized that when I headed back down the road, so did they. The rifle I was carrying that day felt mighty comforting, especially as it was getting quite dark.
The next day, my freinds had to leave, so there was just my wife and I left in camp. We hunted through most of the day without seeing any sign of elk. We'd stopped by camp to rest up a bit and havwe a bit of lunch. A rancher stopped by asking if we'd seen a stray cow, and he described the markings. It turned out that we had seen the animal and directed him to where we'd seen it early that morning.
That night, about nine o'clock, we heard a terrible squalling that came from some animal in horrible pain. It lasted for maybe fifteen minutes, then all was quiet. The next morning, we took a walk towards the general area where the noise came from and found what was left of the cow the rancher was looking for. It wasn't pretty.
I guess my point is, if the wolves decimate the big game herds to the point where hunting by humans is no longer possible, then the damned eco-freak bunny huggers have won. To me this is not acceptable.
I teach Hunter Ed classes, and we have people from Game & Fish come by and give lectures on game management and game laws. Privately, they're telling me that the wolves are starting to become a serious threat to the big game herds. From what I hear on other sites that I go to, this is becoming a serious problem where ever those wolves have been introduced.
It has been said that no big game animal has even been endangered due to sport hunting. Maybe it is due time to make the wolf a big game animal to keep the numbers in check.
JMHO.
Paul B.

[multibeard]

I could see what was going to happen when the reintroduction of wolves in the west was forced upon the people who live there. It was done to make the city living wolf lovers feel good.

Reintroduction of a predator with out an allowance for population control is idiotic. The wolf has more rights than the people that have to put up with them. (Brings to mind an other sour subject of illegals having more rights than American Citizens)

Alaska has been trying to start aerial hunting wolves again due to an out of control wolf population that is decimating the moose and caribou in areas. Aerial hunting is the only practical method in the vast lands of Alaska to control the wolves. The trappers of Alaska can not do it.

Every time they AFG tries to start aerial hunting some do gooders from the outside has to stick there nose in to Alaska's business and get it stopped. A good share of the citizens of Alaska rely on the moose and caribou of the state for there subsistence.

Princess line has more than once threatened to pull out of Alaska's tourist industry if these hunts were allowed. With the multi millions of $$$ Princess has in investments in hotels there is no way they would pull out and lose that. Just another ploy to stop the hunts.

I got a run down from a friends granddaughter at supper last night about the new BAMBI II movie. By the sounds of things the newest edition might be more out of line to reality than the first one. POOR brain washed kids that will see it.

Michigan Wisconsin and Minn were given the OK to start looking at control of the wolves but some bunny huggggin judge put a stop to that.

[fabsroman]

Okay, I take issue to those of you that want to exterminate the wolf and/or think that its reintroduction was a mistake because they compete with us for game. At the end of the day, we need to think more like Teddy Roosevelt and we need to think about game conservation for the next generation rather than just what we ourselves have to shoot.

Now, game management will be needed. Elk were pretty much decimated in several areas and they were reintroduced. Whitetails were decimated in Maryland, but they have made a huge comeback and now they are causing huge crop damage and property damage (i.e., car accidents). Of course, it is now the deer hunter's hey day in Maryland, but everybody's interests need to be taken into consideration. Yeah, it was initially fun for people to say "Oh, look at the cute deer in the front yard." Now, they are saying "Oh my, look at the darn deer in the front yard eating the $1,000 landscaping. Get the gun." We have the same issue with resident canada geese. They were reintroduced several years ago and now they are a serious problem. The season comes in this year a month early and starts August 1 with a 15 bird limit and unplugged guns.

No game managers or bunny huggers want to lose all the elf, mule deer, caribou, moose, and whitetails, much less fido or fiffee, to the wolves. There are rancher interests involved and public safety too. Eventually, they will start to allow the hunting of wolves, but I find that the game managers are always a little behind on when to allow hunting and/or increase the bag limit. The wolves will kill a lot of elk and other animals before they start to allow hunting, but they will.

As far as Court cases are concerned, they tried to do the same thing in Maryland when they opened bear season again after several years of no bear hunting. The Judge held in favor of the hunting, and so should all Judges if the game authorities recommend it.

At the end of the day, I am entirely against professional hunting of wolves or anything else, but we do have it in Maryland with professional snipers killing whitetails at night. Whitetails are just a huge problem here, but there has been some serious crying from the tree huggers about the professional snipers.

If you guys want more hunting, go out and hunt the wolves when hunting is opened if there aren't as many elk. We need to keep in mind that hunting is not a necessity for most, but game preservation, of every species, is a necessity.

[BILLY D.]

hey fabs

i'm sure if ya'll wrote ol' roy a real nice letter he'd send ya some wolfies.

they'd take real quick care of that abundant deer herd you got there.

plus that the wolfies multiply like rabbits and the state of maryland could sell them to other states and make mucho bucks.

if you read the lewis and clark journals and listen closely, there were areas of montana and north dakota where there was no game to eat. now this was sometime before any white settlers explored the area. gee, now how could that be?

at the same time there were plenty of bear and wolf sightings. hummmmm. after the settlers came to the west and killed off most of the wolfies and bears game animals like mule deer, whitetails and elk flourished. again, hummmmmmmmm.

in 2002 there were many sightings of mountain lions here in north dakota. although our astute fish and game department denied it. so guess what happens last year? thats right, f&g decided we needed a season on them.

now what the hell are mountain lions doing in north dakota? the place is as flat as grandmas ironing board and if were not for the curvature of the earth we could see gt. falls, montana from here.

how'd they get here? near as anybody can tell they caught the shuttle flight out of denver headed for minneapolis.

no, they were pushed out of their habitat in wyoming and came through the black hills area. why? supposedly the reintroduction of wolves in wyoming that stole the cats easy pickings. those few wolves they turned loose in yellowstone now number almost 800 according to the last number i read. at reproductive rates like those get ready for a visit by wolves to a neighborhood near you. but they are soooooooo cute and lovable.

[Valigator]

Managed populations of large predators are a must...you can see whats been happening down here when the management gets sloppy....

[multibeard]

Fabs,

The reason that so many people in the wolf reintroduction area feel that the reintroduction was a mistake is that they know that it will be next to impossibble to get permission to controll the dang things once they are there.

As far as what the "judges should do" as far as any wildlife issue is concerned even if it is supported by biological data is a joke. Should do and do do is two different things. The judge that put the cabosh on being able to control the wolves in Wi, Minn and Mi was in some western state far removed from the area that the judgement concerned.

When will this wolf season you dream about happen? After the elk deer and moose hears are decimated.

Maybe we can transplant a few wolves down to Fla to controll those nasty gators!!

[M.T. Pockets]

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the states to get the go ahead for a hunting season on wolves. There has been a huntable population of Grizzly Bears in the Yellowstone ecosystem for 20 years and I have only heard brief talk of allowing a couple tags to the highest bidder. Far as I'm concerned there should be a drawing for Wyoming residents for 90% of the tags and then 10% for non-residents. Charge about the same as for sheep or moose tags. There are about 5 times more grizzly bears now than when the last season was held in the 1970's.

Didn't mean to change the subject from wolves, I just wanted to point out that once there is a huntable population, don't expect a season on them too soon. Minnesota reached it's population goal 20 years ago and I haven't heard anything new about a possible season yet.