Israel will pull US in

[Valigator]

I think I made mention here a while ago, that one of the guys I communicate is a pilot out west. He told me that he was training Israeli pilots and that Israel would be our front door into war in the Middle East......what do you think????

[M.T. Pockets]

Well, I hate to think about it but it wouldn't surprise me. I hope I don't sound anti-semetic but I don't understand the U.S. unconditional support of Israel. Israel has support from the religious right and the liberal left. It's all a mess. It's never been good when governments and religions mix.

[fabsroman]

I think I have posted about this before, but here goes again. Personally, I think we should leave Israel to itself, along with a lot of other countries. However, I am sure that Jews in this country control a lot of the economy and have a decent pull on politics, so the politicians have to make them happy. However, what really bugs the hell out of me is the liberal jews that think we should not be over in Iraq and Afghanistan and who do not want us to go to war. HELLO, if we didn't support Israel 50+ years ago, the muslims wouldn't have a deep hatred for us and 9/11 never would have occurred. What has developed in the Middle East has developed over decades, not just recently. Honestly, I cannot understand why the muslim nations haven't united and just gotten rid of Israel.

Now, as far as our current foreign policy is concerned, I think we are trying to back away from Israel and we have asked Israel to pull out of the West Bank and/or Gaza. Of course, they pulled out but now they are back in for military reasons.

Anyway, I think we should just nuke the entire Middle East, but that just isn't a possibility because of our reliance on oil and the fact that the world in general would be really pissed off at us. We should all be driving flex fuel vehicles and take a hands off policy regarding the Middle East, including Israel. If they want to fight to the death, so be it, but don't drag us into this crap. Our problem is that we haven't fought a straight up war since World War II where we knew exactly who the enemy was. We keep fighting in wars like Korea, Vietnam, Kosovo, Afghanistan, and Iraq to liberate the people from their current government. Problem with that is that we do not know which "people" support us and which do not. So the bullets can come from anywhere. In World War II it was pretty simple, just destroy everything the Germans, Japs, and Italians had, period. We even bombed entire cities without much thought about civilian casualty. Now, we worry about killing a single civilian.

Too much politics in war.

[Montana Cowboy]

Howdy Fabsroman
The reason we have all these little wars is so we can test all our new weapons. The reason we don't have a world war anymore is because the rich people who run the world know that they would lose too as there would be no winners in a big war.Once nations start slinging nukes around were toast. MC

[Aim to maim]

Originally posted by fabsroman
Our problem is that we haven't fought a straight up war since World War II where we knew exactly who the enemy was.

In World War II it was pretty simple, just destroy everything the Germans, Japs, and Italians had, period. We even bombed entire cities without much thought about civilian casualty. Now, we worry about killing a single civilian.

And if you think about it, we haven't really had any serious threats from Germany, Japan or Italy since 1945. They still remember, even if we don't.

[fabsroman]

Montana Cowboy,

I am not saying that we need a World War, and I understand why we cannot have one. The loser would feel as though it needs to fire nukes at the end. With that said, maybe every country sould have nukes. Then, we wouldn't have any wars anymore, which would be fine with me. However, what happens if a mad man gets his hand on nukes. If the Arabs beat the crap out of the Israelis, would the Israelis use nukes since they have them and the Arabs do not? I wonder about that.

My point is that in conventional warfare, it would be much easier for our military if they just needed to plow down a nation instead of trying to keep peace, arrange for a new gov't, etc. Do you think we would have had a problem winning the Korean war or the Vietnam war if we treated the entire country the way we treated Germany, Japan, and Italy. Those wars would have been over in a year or two with very little casualties to the US. That is my point.

[fabsroman]

Just read this on Yahoo:

"Israeli warplanes attack Beirut airport
AP - 1 hour, 24 minutes ago
BEIRUT, Lebanon - Israel intensified its attacks Thursday against Lebanon, blasting Beirut's airport and a Lebanese army air base near the Syrian border, and imposing a naval blockade. More than 50 people have died in violence following the capture of two Israeli soldiers by Hezbollah militants. Warplanes punched holes in the runways of Beirut's international airport and Lebanon's main military air base 30 miles to the east, an attack that could draw the Lebanese army into the conflict."

Now, if we were to attack a civilian airport to try and gain the return of two of our missing soldiers captured by an organization not directly affiliated with the country we are attacking, how much flak do you think we would catch? The Israelis have killed at least 50 people trying to gain the return of their two soldiers. This is going to get ugly. The only thing that could be worse is if the Chinese ally themselves with the Arabs in exchange for oil for their booming economy. Then we will have one heck of a war and possibly a World War where the US, Israel, and China will have nukes.

[PJgunner]

Can you say Armaggedon? The sad part of a lot of this is at one time we could have easily nuked out the Middle east with the neutron bomb. For those that don't remember it, that was the very dirty nuke designed to kill people while leaving the built up infrastructure relatively undamaged. People died but he buildings were OK. They were designed so that the radioactivity would drop to safe levels within about three months. IIRC, it was President Ford who ordered them destroyed. Too bad. Just might have been a serious tactical mistake.
Paul B.

[fabsroman]

Can we make them again? LOL

[Montana Cowboy]

Fabsroman
I understand that you were not saying we should have a Nuke war. I was just making a point that the rich run the world and they know that there would be no winner in a WW. The rich don't really care who wins any war,they are still rich, and still run the show.
As for Vietnam, Korea etc etc we could have kicked ass big time if we wanted to. I heard on Paul Harvy news one day about documents that Had been declassified from the Korean war. In the documents was the fact that President Truman threatend to use nukes to end the war if they did not get serious with meaningfull negoations.
I get very angry when politicians micro manage a war such as Vietnam. The military commanders could have won that war in three months max if they had run the show. Bomb here but don't bomb on the other side of the river where you see them setting up SAM missile site/ off loading from war materials from a ship etc.
Yes I think the Israelis woud use a nuke. I do admire them as you know where you stand with them from the begining. Fire one rocket at them and you can expect 1,000 rockets to be heading your way,they don't mess around.
Hey, what did I do with the spell check. Correct any of my mistakes. Thanks MC

[fabsroman]

Clinton was the same with the war in Kosovo. My buddy that flies F-18's heard from some friends that Clinton was picking which targets to bomb and which not to bomb. Of course, the moron left out a lot of targets that were threatening to pilots. A good CEO, President, etc. knows when to stand back and let others do what they are supposed to do. Presidents rarely have actual experience in warfare, so unless they have been a general or admiral, I think they should keep their nose out of the actual warfare. Tell the generals and admirals what the big picture is (e.g., usurp Sadam and get a democratic government in Iraq), and sit back and let the generals and admirals do what needs to be done.

I wish the US could act like Israel. Blow up the twin towers and we are going to blow up all of Baghdad.

[BILLY D.]

val

we been training foreign pilots for as long as i can remember. going back to the middle 60's i can remember jordanian, saudi, israeli and iranian pilots being trained here.

if israel decides to start a party i don't think they will invite the u.s. our fighting styles, military tactics are totally different. the israeli forces go in break things, kill people and get the hell out.

they don't kiss the foes a$$ and worry about repatriation, rebuilding and setting up NEW governments like we do. one of our greatest errors in vietnam was trying to tweak the politics. and as far as trying to get religions to mix and intermingle, well forget it. ain't gonna happen.

the goal of the muslim world is just like that of the former communist regimes, world domination. the quicker people realize that the better of they will be. bush's stance on this matter totally disappointed me.

i wonder how much dirty money from the nfl and nba is donated to mosques in the U.S. and is supporting terrorism in the middle east. i'll bet a dollar to a dime nobody has even thought of or would think of investigating that matter for fear of hurting someones fellings. well boo, hoo, hoo.

the united states and israel look at war in two different philosophies. i have had many arguments with my brothers over this matter as i have family living in israel. we have had some long heated debates about a war and wars in general. they do not forsee losing. it is not a cloud in their future.

i visited israel a few years ago and felt much the same way as i did in vietnam. as long as i was on army post or an air base i felt pretty secure but when i had to leave that protective ring the hair on the back of my neck and on my forearms stood up. these are resolved people who will fight to the death if need be. they have only been at it for a few thousand years now, so they know how to do it. their military is totally dedicated, and their women in the military are as mean as post menstural rattlesnakes. i value my life and i wouldn't miss with one. but they still know how to be female and a lady. a truely marvelous transformation.

so to get down to the nitty gritty, the united states should let israel handle it's own affairs, give aid when asked and keep it's mouth shut the rest of the time. israel is not abundant in resources, ie: military equipment etc. so what ever they need we should furnish. contrary to popular belief all jews are not rich. this one sure as he(( ain't. but i am jewish by blood, not by religion. i'm even worse, i'm a mackerel snapper.

israel's only down fall would be if they had to fight two different muslim countries at one time. that would stretch them pretty thin. but i also believe they are intelligent enough to not let that happen. they will grind down one country at a time if war does break out. israel thinks strategically, (long term) vs tactically (short term). even though their strategic thinking will cause a short term war. look at the seven day war as an example.

israel has one staunch supporter...me. i root for them in all their endeavors. but i have a vested interest. family.

back to the original question; do i think israel will be our back door to the middle east. no. the door is already wide open. we can barely handle iraq. it's a 50/50 for support by the american people. maybe. with cindy sh*%can and jane fonda and murtha types spewing forth their garbage we wouldn't stand a chance.

gee, what a great way to start the day. i gotta go find my pepcid.

p.s. for those of you who don't know, the jpfo at the bottom of my signature means JEWS FOR THE PRESERVATION OF FIREARMS OWNERSHIP. REMEMBER BACK IN THE 30'S WHEN GOOD OLD ADOLPH CONFISCATED ALL THE GUNS UNDER THE GUISE OF (SAFETY)? SURE MADE IT A LOT EASIER FOR HIS BOYS TO ROUND UP ALL THE JEWS.

[Hawkeye6]

Originally posted by Valigator
I think I made mention here a while ago, that one of the guys I communicate is a pilot out west. He told me that he was training Israeli pilots and that Israel would be our front door into war in the Middle East......what do you think????

Val:

News Flash! We already are in a war inthe Middle East. See Afghanistan and Iraq.

H.

[Skinny Shooter]

Here's some info on Israel and Palestine: http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/
http://www.mideastweb.org/briefhisto...arly%20History

Go Israel!

[Hawkeye6]

PJ:

The neutron bomb was actually a very "clean" bomb as oppesed to a "dirty" bomb. It was designed to release a strong burst of neutrons (in the form of radiation) which would kill organic life, but it was designed to have very little blast effect which would destroy property and very little fallout and secondary radiation which owuldcontaminate property. It never went beyond the design stage and, perhaps never even got to the design stage. It was never oeprational.

Actually you would never have had a "big" neutron bomb. In order to have the killing power without the blast and vaporization which would result in fallout, they would have had to remained realtively small bombs.