Who is in favor of Israel's actions?

[Valigator]

Be careful to recognize any slant the mainstream media puts on this war...when Israel decided it needed a homeland a half century ago...they took territories that belonged to the Palestinians for centuries. In some cases, they literally gave the Palestinian people days to get out of there homes with no compensation. In their quest for their rights to establish a state of their own, they pissed alot of people off. It is not as simple as a difference in religion. I personally think the world unestimated the core hatred the Arabs had for the Jews that has festered for decades. This hatred has spawned groups like Hamas and Hezbollah. Hezbollah whether you agree with their religion or not is doing what the jews did 55 years ago...trying to establish their own state for their sect. Do I think its a good idea? No, they are extremist and dangerous, but they are as adamant about it as the Jews were. Over many Presidents and many hours of so-called peace processes, the Israeli's have on numerous occations violated almost every aspect of agreements under the guise of "Demanding a homeland" with many of the European nations and the west turning a blind eye to these violations. Is it any wonder some of these groups formed? I have mixed emotions and have for many years about our alignment with Israel, I suppose in the big picture it is in our best interest to stamp these groups out and keep a firm grasp in this area for fuel and strategic reasons...but I inherited the fight of the jews for a homeland, now my children have, and make no mistake, my son's children will inherit it with all its repercusions. So since we did, one thing is for sure, We are here...and I am sick and tired of the Bush bashing, the arm-chair politicians and the time-line to pull our troops out...newsflash we are in it, and we are in it for the next 50 years...

[Valigator]

PS...now I am not sure but I can almost make a guess....when they come to an agreement as to who will be responsible for pickin up the tab for rebuilding the infrastructure in Lebanon, you'll see the bombs stop flying...and you can bet it wont be Israel......ready to bend over everyone?????

[Steverino]

This issue goes back far longer than a century ago Val- it goes back to the Old Testament and Abraham's birth-right blessing to his son's Ephraim and Mennasah-which gives claim to the land which both Israel and the Palestinians reside.

That visit that was mentioned in a earlier post about then Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's visit to the Temple Mount, was not done in an act of extending the ol' olive branch. He walked the Temple Mount which to a person residing in this area, clearly demonstrates ownership. This started the riot and ensuing violence once again in this particular region- a point by and large unreported in any western mainstream reporting. No surprise there.

[Valigator]

I know this isnt popular, but I personally dont give a damn about Israel and give less each day. Our generation inherited a commitment made long ago....and for the life of me I cant get a solid answer that would sustain my commitment or my grandchildren's. Hey maybe I'll feel different tomorrow, but everytime I posed a question as to America's undying, unwavering commitment to this ....All I get is some comment that I may be anti-semitic.....No...I would just love to fully understand why we endure the world's wrath for this commitment and someone please explain the dynamics to me that makes sense.

[Tater]

I agree that Israel has the right to get their troops back. I'm not sure I totally agree with the way they're going about it because a lot of civilians are either getting killed or injured or just losing everything when their home gets blown up. I don't know enough about economics or politics to argue those points but I do believe that Israel should do what they feel necessary to get their troops back.

[fabsroman]

What is hilarious is that if you were to say "Go Muslims" you would be anti-semitic, but if you say "Go Israel" you aren't considered anti-muslim or anti-arab, or even if you are considered anti-muslim or anti-arab, that is fine.

The more I read about this, the more I find both sides doing things to one another to keep this feud going forever. As I said earlier, the entire Middle East should be nuked because there isn't one purely innocent side with completely clean hands. The Arabs gode on the Jews, and the Jews gode on the Arabs. Yeah, the arabs started this thing in this century by attacking Israel right after it became a country. However, Israel continues to do stuff to the arabs to piss them off. This invasion, killing of civilians, and destruction of non-military targets is one example.

Now, if Israel were to help rebuild Beirut, then I might have a slightly different opinion. Of course, if I were a betting man I wouldn't be betting for Israel to help Beirut rebuild after this is over.

[Valigator]

I think its time for this generation to ask and get answers...in a very short time this government or the next will commit our sons and daughters to this effort, I need to know why. In as much as I have no connection with Islam or its people, I am starting to wonder if we werent better served to maintain a stronger stance and friendship with the Arab States instead of what we have done...the old "Israel's right to a homeland" isnt enough for me anymore, but its the way it has always been and I get the feeling we are not suppose to question it....well I am questioning??? I e-mailed a Chabad this am and very respectively asked the Rabbi why? I'll bet you 500 bucks he doesnt respond....Actually I have been asking for a few years now, I have never gotten an answer from anyone, and believe me I was nice...

[M.T. Pockets]

An old friend of mine was in Europe during the last days of WW II and helped liberate a concentration camp, he also spent some time in post war Germany before being discharged. It was during this time that Israel was set up in it's current location.

I think my friend had the right idea. He said that the UN or whoever set up the country of Israel should have put it in the Northwest Territories or Australia or Alaska or somewhere else that was looking for people to come and settle at the time. To take land from Arabs is like trying to take a kill from a grizzly bear and expecting it to be happy about it.

[Valigator]

I read also in the initial years of looking for a homeland, I think it was on the coast of South Africa was a number one choice...imagine of the aggravation we would have saved....

[BILLY D.]

Originally posted by Valigator
I read also in the initial years of looking for a homeland, I think it was on the coast of South Africa was a number one choice...imagine of the aggravation we would have saved....

val

this fight for a homeland goes back much further than 1947. this has been an on going fight by the jewish people for four thousand years.

do a search for internet history-israel, and be prepared for a few hours of reading what you don't know about. i was only 10 years old when the israeli state was formed. i was a voracious reader at that time, my grandfathers told me to always be a breast of what is happening in political affairs, both nationaly and internationaly. i have aspired to do that. had it not been for my grandfathers keeping an ear close to the ground little billy d. would be a grease spot on an oven floor somewhere in treblinka, buchenwald or aushwitz.

as for the jews resolve about their homeland read about the story of masada when the roman empire declared war on the jews. as for the old saying "we shall never forgive nor forget those who have wronged us" it still holds true today. maybe be a bit childish, but it is better to stand for something than to fall for anything. do i hear a song?

you might ask why the roman empire declared war on the jews. easy to answer 1. they were religious, at this time in history the romans were pagans, 2. sheer numbers. the jews were few in numbers and it was an easy victory. and the commanders got a feather in their caps.

well since the formation of the israeli state the jews are not spread out like they were before ww2. they are not easy to round up out of the ghettos like what happened in germany, poland and russia. for the first time in 4000 years we have a homeland to protect and protect it they will.

the palistinians may have a small gripe in the land deal, but it was jordan that screwed them over not the israelis. but will palistine fight jordan, nooooooo. they are arab brothers. sides that it's easier to make israel look like the red haired stepchild.

i don't understand your stance on how the u.s. will pick up the costs of repatriating lebanon. thats for them and israel to settle their own differences. israel is not harboring terrorists, lebanon is. if you want to harbor terrorists you are a bad guy right along with them. if you are not our friend in the war on terror then you are our foe. simple as that.

you will never see peace in that region for one simple reason, arabs, i should say muslims, can not get along with themselves. look at iraq. three different muslim sects and they all hate each other. and here we are with our a$$ stuck in the middle.

think iraq will end up a democracy? i don't expect to see it in my lifetime. it will end up like pre saddam. one dictator and lots of mass burial sites.

rant mode off. it's pepcid time.

forgot to type in a link. http://www.fordham.edu/hallsal/ancient/asbook06.html

[Valigator]

Billy no one in the world is as sympathetic to the Jews and their struggles as the present day baby boomers, we grew up with the cold pictures of what the Nazi's did to the Jews...on any given day we have been conditioned to understand the plight of the Jewish people and their struggles ....and no one diminishes these plights....I am a Christian and one day I may be asked to send my grandson off to fight and risk his life to preserve Israel. I need more than the remembrance of Treblinka to do that. Perhaps I am too pragmatic.....but if Israel wants the ongoing commitment from a new generation I think some of us need to be educated. You are my friend Billy and I would never want to upset you by asking these questions...but I have to tell you, I just dont understand it..

Christians can go back in history and detail atrocities and slaughter that accompanies their struggles, I dont remember the last time we engaged in war and told the world we deserve to win because of the crusades...see what I mean???

[BILLY D.]

Originally posted by Valigator
Billy no one in the world is as sympathetic to the Jews and their struggles as the present day baby boomers, we grew up with the cold pictures of what the Nazi's did to the Jews...on any given day we have been conditioned to understand the plight of the Jewish people and their struggles ....and no one diminishes these plights....I am a Christian and one day I may be asked to send my grandson off to fight and risk his life to preserve Israel. I need more than the remembrance of Treblinka to do that. Perhaps I am too pragmatic.....but if Israel wants the ongoing commitment from a new generation I think some of us need to be educated. You are my friend Billy and I would never want to upset you by asking these questions...but I have to tell you, I just dont understand it..

Christians can go back in history and detail atrocities and slaughter that accompanies their struggles, I dont remember the last time we engaged in war and told the world we deserve to win because of the crusades...see what I mean???

well sweetheart

to roll it up in one short statement, we are tired of being treated like a used condom and won't take it anymore, the line has been drawn in the sand.

damn here i go again. forget the religious part of the argument, it is about autonomy. the right of a jewish state, the right to settle in the homeland they were run out of thousands of years ago and they spread to the four winds. if you want our land so bad, you are going to bleed and die for it.

[fabsroman]

I have another big question. Why are the Jews entitled to a homeland? Is any other country actually labeled a homeland for a religion. The Vatican is in Italy, but is Italy the homeland of the Catholics?

Regarding the persecution of the Jews by Hitler and the Romans, lets try to remember that the Romans fed the Christians to the lions and Hitler killed plenty of civilians other than the Jews. Based upon the chart below, Hitler killed more gentile civilians than Jewish civilians, but the holocaust is always synonymous with Jewish history instead of it just being an entire tragedy for the entire world.

Ukrainians 5.5 - 7 million
Jews (of all countries) 6 million +
Russian POWs 3.3 million +
Russian Civilians 2 million +
Poles 3 million +
Yugoslavians 1.5 million +
Gypsies 200,000 - 500,000
Mentally/Physically Disabled 70,000- 250,000
Homosexuals Tens of thousands
Spanish Republicans Tens of thousands
Jehovah's Witnesses 2,500 - 5,000

Yes, 6 million Jews were killed, but there were millions more of gentiles. Why does that rarely ever get mentioned?

Next big question. Did the Jews take this land from anybody 4,000 years ago, or was it just sitting there for them to occupy and use?

[M.T. Pockets]

Harry Truman had a LOT to do with the state of Israel existing where it is. He was warned plenty about the Arab hatred this would create, and how it would alienate our major supplier of oil, but there weren't near the Arab voters in the US as there were Jewish voters, and there was a Presidential Election in the fall of '48. Truman needed the votes and he got them.

[Valigator]

This subject is getting pretty touchy but many of my friends are giving me some background on this...which is really appreciated...I need to educate myself a little more fully...Looks like Barnes and Noble is on the visit list...Former sec of state, Madeline Albright has a book out laying out the dynamics of the relationships that focus's on the Middle East....I'm gonna pick that up today....