Best scope for 5-700yd varmits?

[32Spcl]

What you recomend? I'm looking at a Leopold VariX-III in a
4.5-14X40 or a 6.5-20X40?
In determining distance and windage, how useful is the Varmint Recticle or should I go with mil dot or ?

Thanks

[HPBTMTCH]

32, IMO the nightforce is the best glass out there. I can range decent with the reticule, but past 600, it`s tough to tell. You can`t beat a good laser rangefinder for that job. The varmint or mil-dots are about the same, the varmint is a little better, i would rather use the reticule for windage, because i don`t know anyone who has`nt cranked the knobs the wrong way once or twice, lol.

[Skinny Shooter]

Hi 32Spcl, welcome to HuntChat.
What critters will you be shooting at 5yds?
What rifle/caliber are you shooting?
A 4.5x or 6.5x will give you a narrow field of view a range of 5yards. If its a coyote you'll have to be quick, a sitting groundhog should give you enough time to line up on 'em.
Can you hunt with a handgun? Use that for the close-in shots, its lots of fun.
I can see groundhogs well enough with a Leupold 4.5-14LR mildot out to 1K but my 6.5-20LR mildot is better.

I don't prefer the varmint hunter reticle and my next Leupold will have the Tactical Milling Reticle in it.
Having the .5 mil hash marks is a plus over the standard mildot reticle. http://www.leupold.com/products/tact...ticles_TMR.htm
Have been thinking of upgrading both of my scopes to the TMR.
I like the Mildot/TMR style for me cause its easy to use the dots/lines as hold-overs or unders.

For me, ranging with the mildot reticle is difficult cause I hunt groundhogs so I don't use it for that purpose.
Currently am using a Bushnell Elite 1500 for ranging and then dial in my clicks or use the mildots to aim dead on.

Nightforce is an excellent line of optics but don't have the resources to make that kind of investment.

Here's a link to some mildot info: http://www.mil-dot.com/
I also recommend the Mildot Master: http://www.mildot.com/

Allen

[32Spcl]

Thats 500 yds not 5. Coyotes mainly
Thanks

[Catfish]

No scope on the market will help you figure out the range accurately enough to hit consistancly much past the max. point blank range of the rifle. If you want to shoot consistly at long yardages you need to get a range finder. Then you figure you drop chart on the load you will be useing. VERY IMPORANT, Next you check your chart and make correction as needed. At this point the science is over and you get in to the art of long range shooting, WIND DRIFT. Being able to tell what the wind velosity is, not only where you are, but all the way between you and the target.
At present the lowest power scope I use on a varment rifle is a 6 x 18 VX111 on an AR varmenter. I`ve got acouple of 6 1/2 x 20`s that I use also, plus a couple of 24X target scopes. You must have target knobs if you plan on dialing in your correct elevation and wind drift, and that is the easiest was to get consistant hits at long ranges. If you are not willing to go to this trouble you can come close to the accuracy with a good mil. dot scope, but you still have to do your home work on bullet drop and wind drift.

[royinidaho]

10X is plenty good for 700yds and even beyond. 2.5 would be sufficient for the short range part.

Any reticle is useless for ranging for anything smaller than an an elephant, IMHO. The only way to go is to use a LRF.

Mil Dots are good if turrets are in mils. MOA hash marks are good if turrets are in MOA. Mix 'em and its a spot of bother.

If you're shooting to 700 yds you'll need a drop chart so Mil/MOA for hold over or accurate clicks will be necessary.

Ditto what Catfish says.

Ditto what Skinny Shooter said about half mil marks.

I use a 6.5X20 Mil dot on my 222 Rem
A 4.5X14 Weaver Tactical on a 338 RUM and
A 16X SuperSniper on a 270 Allen Mag.

I hold over with the 222 & 338 and click on the Allen Mag.

I also use a Leica 1200 for all ranging.

[32Spcl]

Thanks guys, I'm almost confused, maybe just a bit more..or maybe it's all the Ice falling on me in Central Texas this week.

Ok, I believe I know the basics on the mil dot; in that after estimating the range , one would use the same rect. for hold over and windage after consulting drop charts.

But I'm not clear on using MOA. . .. Using Clicks ? to adjust MOA? Using a rangefinder, One would dial in the drop AND windage to zero out the rect. on the point of impact without actually holding over??? is that right?
If I outlined the Moa system correctly, in chosing a recticle, One would only need a cross or dot. , you wouldn't need hold-over dots and windage dots could be used or just dialed in.
So if that is right ,
How would one know if turrents are for mils or Moa?
I'm Looking a a Leupold 6.5X20 . Didn't see any options on turrnets, only recticles.
Overall the MOA system seems faster than using the the mil dot, but has the extra expense of the rangefinder.

Thanks again

[Skinny Shooter]

Ok, I believe I know the basics on the mil dot; in that after estimating the range , one would use the same rect. for hold over and windage after consulting drop charts.

Yes, but you also use your target turrets for ranges that your mildots don't compensate for.

But I'm not clear on using MOA. . .. Using Clicks ? to adjust MOA? Using a rangefinder, One would dial in the drop AND windage to zero out the rect. on the point of impact without actually holding over??? is that right?

Yes, you will dial in your come-ups or clicks so you can aim dead-on.
MOA (minute of angle) at 100 yards is equal to approx 1 inch.
Most scope adjustments move the reticle 1/4" for each click at 100 yards. Some scopes move the reticle 1/8" and the scope manufacturer will tell you either way.
So if you turn your target turret 4 clicks at the same 100 yard target, you have just moved your reticle 1MOA.
Those same 4 clicks at 100 yards just moved the reticle 1 inch.
Here is where some folks start to get confused.
At 500 yards, those same 4 clicks of the target turret move the reticle 5 inches. And that is still one MOA of movement. At 1000 yards, that same 1 MOA (4 clicks) of movement will move the reticle 10 inches

If I outlined the Moa system correctly, in chosing a recticle, One would only need a cross or dot. , you wouldn't need hold-over dots and windage dots could be used or just dialed in.

That is correct, you could just make the appropriate click adjustments on your turrets and aim dead-on.

So if that is right ,
How would one know if turrents are for mils or Moa?

Mils are used in the reticle.
MOA adjustments are found on most target turrets.
There is a scope manufacturer out there who is building a reticle based on MOA and can't recall who it is.

I'm Looking at a Leupold 6.5X20 . Didn't see any options on turrnets, only recticles.

If you looked at Model #57175, it does not have target turrets.
You need to look at a model like #57180. That has the Varmint Hunter reticle though.
My 6.5-20 is an earlier Long Range/Target Series and looks just like the #57189.
The latest improved version of that scope is now being made under this model number #54680 which is a Mark 4 series.
If I end up getting a 243Win, I will probably buy this model #60080 which has the TMR.
There is also a Mark 4 series scope that has a target turret which moves 1" for each click. Those are called M3 turrets and is more of a specialized scope for the military.

Overall the MOA system seems faster than using the the mil dot, but has the extra expense of the rangefinder.

Remember, you are using the mildots for hold-overs/unders, not ranging.
MOA is slower actually.
Say we are hunting together with the same gun, scope and cartridge combo and we see a coyote at 350 yards.
If I know that my first mildot down the reticle from the center will get me a hit on that dog at 350 yards, by the time you have dialed in your 3.5 MOA (14 clicks), I've already killed the coyote.
(info for the MOA and Mils needed were taken from the drop chart posted below)

If you are looking at a 6.5-20 Leupold, go with the long range series that has the focus adjustment on the left side and invest in the tactical milling reticle right away. You may think its a bit overkill now but you will grow into it later. Any of the top of the line Leupolds are pricey but I feel that glass should cost at least as much as your rifle if not more.
You could try the varmint hunter reticle but that reticle is based on each animal being the same height every time you try to range it. Not sure about that concept.

I've included a photo of a drop chart that is printed on an Avery label and then stuck to the inside of my Butler Creek eyepiece scope cover. It gives a quick reference to my drops.

[Catfish]

I`ll try to make MOA simple. First you must know how much your bullet will drop at all yardages. Second you must know the yardage, a range finder. I your target is 400 yrds. out and the bullet will drop 8 in at 400 yrds you would crank up your scope 2 MOA. If you raise the point of impact 2 in. at 100 yrds. you will raise it 8 in. at 400 yrds, 2 x 4 = 8. You devide the bullet drop by the number of yrds in 100 and adjust your scope than many ins. It`s real simple once you understand it.

[32Spcl]

Thanks everyone. the fog is lifting..
Skinny S.:I'm trying to stay with a 40MM , so the #57180 is nice but... probably go with the 55152 (6.5x20-40),only no side focus.
You said earlier that you also use your target turrets for ranges that your mildots don't compensate for. Could you explain this?


Question to all: So I can use mildots for easy holdover, how about windage. It seems like the varmint ( with built in windage )would be easier than holding an imaginary point off the horizontal and vertical... What do most shooters do in this senario.

Thanks

[Skinny Shooter]

I meant that when I'm shooting at a distance that would make it difficult to use the mildots for a holdover, I just click up on the turret till I can shoot dead-on.
I shot at a groundhog once and missed because the wind shifted the bullet off track about 1 mil. I held 1 mil into the wind and hit it. Pretty kewl to see it all work.

[sgj3030]

Hey 32 spl where in Central TX are you I am right in the center or TX near San Angelo.

Thanks

Stephen

[32Spcl]

about 2-3 hrs. east