Talk about under the radar! - Page 2

Jack · #16 09-14-2007, 07:27 PM

I looked up Mirage jets on Wikipedia, because I was curious as to what make/model the jets were, too.
Wikipedia lists and describes a number of Mirage jets, most of which are delta wing. But there is one that is a conventional swept wing aircraft, and is built in a ground attack version, called the F1.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Mirage_F1

Rapier · #17 09-15-2007, 04:30 AM

This is found on the boards where the film is located:

"no, these aircrafts are french mirage F1 cr from reims air base (where I study) in a detatchment in chad.

they have come to the request of the chadian government to fight islamist rebels from lybia. you can find plenty of awsome "mirage in chad" video on you tube. "

This matches with the data on the F-1. Also note on the film that the air induction is oval. The Tornado's induction is a rectangle. The French also sold these aircraft to several countries in Africa.
Ed

Rocky Raab · #18 09-15-2007, 08:24 AM

I agree - definitely not Tornadoes, and not a regular Mirage (which are indeed all delta-wings), either.

What you want in a high-speed, low-level ground attack airplane are smallish wings with high wing loading. That means that each square foot of wing has to support more weight. The higher the wing loading, the smoother the ride and steadier the aim when in turbulence on the deck.

Examples of great airplanes in that role are the Jaguar and the Harrier - both with small wings compared to their load capacity.

Rocky Raab · #19 09-15-2007, 02:46 PM

Yup, Mirage F1. Here's a link with photos.
Note the refueling probe, which is plainly visible in some of the forward-looking shots.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/row/mirage-f1.htm

skeet · #20 09-16-2007, 06:24 PM

Did you have any time in fast movers? I got a flight in an F-4 one time. Guy tried to get me to puke. Man what a hoot. Only lasted about 20 minutes or so but wow.. Took more time to get all suited up than flying...or so it felt. I woulda given my eye teeth for a little stick time...maybe even more than that

Rocky Raab · #21 09-16-2007, 07:08 PM

Well, I did train in the T-37 and the supersonic T-38. Then during my FAC training, I went to Fighter School and actually flew Korean War vintage two-seat F-80s (also called AT-33s). We did mostly attack training in the F-80, so that as a FAC, I'd know from first-hand experience what a fighter was capable of delivering - and how hard it is to do so. There was strafing, rockets, and high- and low-angle bombing. During skip-bombing and napalm attacks, you do get pretty low and fast.

After Vietnam, I was a T-37 Instructor for almost five years. Over the Southeast US, they didn't let us get really low or fast due to the civilian populace.

That's three jets, only one of which was supersonic-capable (and I only went to Mach 1.1 once).

skeet · #22 09-17-2007, 08:19 AM

I am sooo jealous. Always wanted to fly one myself. The only thing they let me fly was those ugly planes. Nothing pretty. The absolute worst was a nasty ol flying boxcar. Dangerous airplanes...old and poor maintenance. There are a whole bunch of them down at the airport in Greybull Wy. Some even still have the jato's on 'em. They used 'em for firefighting tankers for years. All kinds of old junk down there. I'm still really jealous.
BTW do ya need any Hornet brass?? I'll send ya some if you need it. Needs cleaning though.

Rocky Raab · #23 09-17-2007, 09:41 AM

No thanks on the Hornet brass, skeet. I'm well supplied.

BILLY D. · #24 09-17-2007, 11:53 AM

Hey skeet

Don't knock the C-119. I flew 182 Combat Missions in the AC-119K and never NEVER had to walk home once. I wish I could say the same for choppers. I loved that Aircraft. She was tough and fullfilled a lot of different missions.

We flew mainly truck interdiction routes from South of the Mu Ghia Pass in the North down the Ho Chi Minh Trail through Laos and Cambodia. Due to a superior Aircraft and superior Airmanship we were able to dodge AAA and kill trucks.

This Aircraft also was a welcome sight to Grunts, Army and Marines when they were confronted and outnumbered buy a superior force on the ground. The sight of Stinger, AC-119K moving into the area with her 6 Gatlings was truly comforting. Ask the troops at Fire Support Base Vandergrift in Quang Tri Provence on 17 Aug. 1971 how they regard the AC-119K Gunships with their 4 Mini's and 2 20MM Gatlings and 2 million Candlepower White Light. When they called and we responded they were being over-run by the NVA. When the dust settled the estimated body count of 800 souls who gave their lives for the NVA cause was made. Their were no losses for our side, just wounded troops. Med EVAC choppers got them out and to Da Nang. Loved those Army Chopper guys. They don't make them with any bigger testicles than them and FORWARD AIR CONTROLERS, cough, cough, Rocky. You wouldn't believe what those guys flew through. Rocky may not have achieved MACH 2 but he did something much more important than that. SALUTE. Yes, I'm an enlisted puke.

So skeet, don't ever downgrade a 119 in front of me or I'll give you a ration full. I love that bird. She was a great one.

Bill

Rocky Raab · #25 09-17-2007, 12:55 PM

Billy, did you ever talk to somebody who has been at the receiving end of a gunship? (I mean the good guys, of course.)

It's absolutely eerie. There is NO sound until the bullets suddenly start ripping into the earth, and then it's either like a hellish hailstorm (7.62 minis) or a roar like a looooong bull bellow (20mm). The tracer stream looks like a never-ending bolt of red lightning. Long seconds after the last bullet hits, there's an equally long deep moan from the sky - and THAT sounds for all the world like devils on their way to hell.

And then in the weird silence, inevitably, somebody says in absolute awe, "Holy sheet."

It is. It is just exactly that.

BILLY D. · #26 09-17-2007, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rocky Raab
Billy, did you ever talk to somebody who has been at the receiving end of a gunship? (I mean the good guys, of course.)

It's absolutely eerie. There is NO sound until the bullets suddenly start ripping into the earth, and then it's either like a hellish hailstorm (7.62 minis) or a roar like a looooong bull bellow (20mm). The tracer stream looks like a never-ending bolt of red lightning. Long seconds after the last bullet hits, there's an equally long deep moan from the sky - and THAT sounds for all the world like devils on their way to hell.

And then in the weird silence, inevitably, somebody says in absolute awe, "Holy sheet."

It is. It is just exactly that.

Rocky

Been on both ends of that and to me it sounded like a blast from a tuba. Of course with my excellent hearing. ahem, ahem, I don't hear anything high pitched anymore. Bells, whistles and sirens are beyond me. Can't remember the last time I heard a bird sing.

We always tried to limit our bursts, especialy with the 20, they were limited to 140 round bursts. Our illustrious Squadron Commander, who shall go un-named, once emptied a drum of 20mm and the Gun was torn from the Kevlar floor mounts. I was re-loading the rear drum and didn't get to the master switch box in time to shut it off. But this dumbie knew the rules on burst time. My AC had to hold me back during the de-briefing. It's not considered nice for a TSGT to whip a Lt. Col's ass in public.

We had HOT rounds going off in the Cargo Compartment and there were 3 really pissed off Gunners, an Illuminator Operator and a Night Observation Sight Operator in the back of the Aircraft. We didn't mind getting killed by the enemy but friendly? fire sucks.

The firing cone is beatiful to see from both ends.

Bill