I hear that neck shots on deer are UNETHICAL?

[Mr. 16 gauge]

It seems as though you have started this thread just to argue.

SEEMS!!?!??!?!?! ....it's the only reason he posts in this forum! He just loves to stir the pot and get everyone riled up.

Another reason to quit this particular forum......apparently, the mods/administrators prefer to tolerate this kind of bullshit.

[rattus58]

Hi Adam....

My Volunteer can shoot 1" groups periodically and less than 1 1/2" groups at 100 yards consistently with a 470 grain gas check bullet and a 480 grain Lyman 457121.

My Green mountain barrels in 58 and 40 shoot touching at 50 yards. I've not shot them to 100 yards except at bowling pins, which the 58 plasters them regularly. These groups are from shooting off of two bag rests, a very accurate arrangement for sighting in.

My Whites all shoot accurately too, with my T-bolt doing better than an inch from time to time my last target was 5/8" for two shots. I knew when I was ahead.

The problem is Adam, I don't hunt off of a two bag rest. I can't shoot worth a darn beyond 20 to 25 yards offhand, and so have to be sitting for any shot beyond that. Normally my hunting ranges are usually quite close, my longest recently was a lasered 123 yards in a nice in velvet axis buck on Lanai

Of the neck shots I have taken, one was about 3 yards, several others maybe 7 to 10, the doe that started this thread was at the most maybe 12 or 13 yards.

What shots do I take mostly? I advocate the double lung as the most effective shot for any hunter and take them every chance I get, but there are other very effective shots with big bullets as well besides the double lung.

Have a Merry Christmas Adam and enjoy a prosperous new year!!!

Aloha...

[rattus58]

Originally posted by Mr. 16 gauge
SEEMS!!?!??!?!?! ....it's the only reason he posts in this forum! He just loves to stir the pot and get everyone riled up.

Another reason to quit this particular forum......apparently, the mods/administrators prefer to tolerate this kind of bullshit.

Really.... MR SIXTEEN GAUGE... and how did I stir the pot here? Who was the one who misread, and INCORRECTLY emphasized my quote? And who is arguing MR SIXTEEN GAUGE it is not I.

And I really don't see YOU especially offering anything constructive on these threads so what is it... and let's let talk about bullshit, shall we... how does this thread rile up anyone... or are you one of those who feels that the TEXAS HEARTSHOT is the most ethical shot to take?

[skeet]

But as I said the average muzzy really isn't as accurate as the average centerfire...let me quote you

Boy now that is a statement of statements. Every muzzleloader I own today is easily as accurate as ANY off the shelf centerfire. I'm not as good a shot with my flintlock yet, but that is not the guns fault.

All of my Green Mountain Barrels are excellent, as are all the Clerke Barrels I shoot, so I'm not arguing with you, but I am taking issue with muzzleloaders not being as accurate, for in my OPINION, they surely are as accurate as any centerfire

Seems to me that your rifles are somwhat customized if they all have green mountain or clerke bbls. Sure some muzzleloaders are very accurate but I'm talking the average and it is almost impossible for them to be as accurate. The average muzzleloader shooter is just as inaccurate as the average centerfire shooter too. The only thing that makes them different is that the centerfire shooter has ammunition that is more consistent and better produced than what the average muzzy shooter is using. Also the rifles for the most part are not made any where near as well as the average centerfire. YOURS may be as accurate but of the dozen or so I had and have at this time the Savage ML 10 is the only one that comes really close. Oh and I must say..yeah...you do like to argue..not discuss. From time to time I have also done the same thing....but generally with people I know personally.

[Adam Helmer]

Merry Christmas to All.

Let's let this matter rest and ALL enjoy Peace On Earth for the next few days.

The Peace of the Lord be with you all.....

Adam

[rattus58]

Hi Skeet....

Ok... then let's argue , if that is all I do. I don't disagree with you that many guns don't perform well, but my first muzzleloader was a T/C that I got through the Hunter Education Program. This gun did not shoot accurately at all. All of my T/C's except 1, have had to be returned to the factory and all except one Big Boar have had the barrels replaced.

My first try at a kit was a CVA. With a patched ball, that gun was very accurate. Now, most of the guns I shoot, I don't shoot to 100 yards, nor do most of the others I see shooting. If I can put my shots into one hole or touching at 50 yards I'm happy. That's what I build a load to.

With the CVA I started with round balls. My first days on the range were pretty dismal if I remember I was depressed. At 25 yards I couldn't get 5 shots to touch so I started looking for reasons.

The answer for the CVA was a linen patch from Dixie that we soaked in a sort of moose milk. That got my bullets touching at 25 yards. Finally it turned out that I needed to change my powder, which I did, and all of a sudden my bullets essentially were covering each other.

Out to 50 yards and they were still touching or within 1/2" of each other. I upped my loads till the group opened up some then backed off. At 100 yards into a pie plate or bowling pins, we were able to put pretty much 10 out of 10 into the 6" pie plate and so I was ready to go hunting. I don't know what the group would have been off the bench at 100, but I'd level a bet that someone accomplished could do 2" all day long.

What I learned from this experience, is that many guns shoot much better than we think if we try just a little harder.

CVA hasn't been known to be the worlds classiest barrel, but after a little experimenting, a lot of help from others we got the gun shooting well enough to go hunting and it took its first mouflon sheep that summer on Lanai.

Aloha...

[skeet]

Had about 6 T-C rifles and a few others and all of 'em would shoot pretty well. I wasn't interested in benchrest accuracy...just angle of deer. My max shot with any of the muzzys has been about 75 yds but ya can't see too much farther for decent shots in the woods...at least in Md. I shot roundballs also so I definitely wanted to keep my shots under 100 yds. Shooting 100 yds from a bench the best groups I ever had was with one rifle and it would shoot just a bit larger on average than 2 inches. The Savage 10ML does that easily though with the recommended loads of smokeless. Pyrodex or 777 and black the groups spread out to about 3 inches. So ....I use ...smokeless BTW years ago I did a test with the brass powder measures for loading muzzys and they were so inconsistent it wasn't funny. As much as 10 grains different from load to load. Went to weighing charges and it was better for accuracy. How many hunters ever check their powder measures?? Just too many variables to the muzzleloader sport for the AVERAGE shooter to be consistently accurate. I would say..you just ain't average. So stop arguin with me!!

[Swift]

To each his/her own. I'll stick with the boiler room.

[rattus58]

Hi Skeet,

You're so right about the volume measures. Just tap your measure sometime and be prepared to be astonished at how much it can settle....

I'm with you on the measuring part too. I think that one of the great benefits that the Savage brings to those that shoot various types of powders or guns is measuring and weighing.

I also use a wad between powder and bullet. Some folks are using such things like cornmeal and cream of wheat as a buffer with great results, though I have to admit I haven't taken to denyin the chilluns their breakfast fer my personal satisfactions just yet...

Another thing about accuracy is having people like you drop these little pearls... like the powder measure idiosyncrasies and weighing powder, or at least tapping the measure and refilling.

Smokeless is so accurate because I believe its more consistent. What can we learn from that... No... don't run out and load your gun with smokeless, but some powders are going to be more consistent than others.

As much as I prefer to use 3F for all my guns, if I'm shooting for burgers, I have to use 2F Triple Seven or Goex for my best groups. RS is not as good as either of the two in my 58's.

So, may Santa bring you sleighload powder, the keys to a private preserve where you can bring yer bud's to go hunting, and lastly, he brings you good health and prosperity...

Much Aloha and Merry Christmas

[fabsroman]

First and foremost, may Santa bring you health and prosperity. You can get whatever you want if you have those two, or at least live a pretty decent life with those two versus without them.

Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night.

[rattus58]

Hey Fabsroman... Same to you and yours.. Much Aloha...

[Deerman]

I've made one neck shot on purpose.The doe droped right in her tracks,but it took a follow-up shot to finish her.Last time I tried it.