Congress does it again???

[GoodOlBoy]

Market hunters will never be able to wipe out feral pigs (and it is a real shame they can't) First of all Pigs begin breeding at 8 months of age, gestation is 112-114 days, and the litters run from 6-18 in feral pigs (although litters above 12 do not have a good survival rate) The Texas Parks and Wildlife announced last hunting season that they believe the feral pig population in Texas alone is growing by about 60000 (yes thats sixty THOUSAND) a year.

Tell me how market hunters are going to keep up with that? Two days ago I saw 6 full grown sows surrounded by more than sixty piglets that looked to be 2-3 months old. By deer season they will have bred, and by February 2/3s of them will have had liters of 6-18!

You want to throw buffalo in there because of it? We are not talking about a native breed wiped out by the US government to starve native people! We are talking about a wildlife catastrophe CREATED by the government from the time they started using scare tactics about pig disease in the 80s until the time they banished selling the meat! Now most ranchers pay people to come shoot the pigs and roll them into a ditch because the meat can't be sold, you can only eat so much pork, and Hunter's for the Hungry won't take pork in case it offends the PC crowd!

You know whats black and white? Hay and vegetable prices in east Texas because of the crops that have been destroyed by feral pigs, THAT'S whats black and white. Even attacks on people by pigs have gone through the roof in the last few years. The autobody shops around are seeing record numbers of pig destroyed cars (yea destroyed you hit a pig and you aint pullin that dent out!)

Ill post some links later

GoodOlBoy

[fabsroman]

Sure GOB, continue to tell yourself that market hunters would not be able to decimate the feral hog population if market hunting was allowed and there was a demand for the meat.

Let's talk technology here and the definition of market hunting. Market hunting is not sitting up in a tree stand with a rifle all day waiting to kill one or two hogs, but slaughtering the entire group when you come upon them. On top of that, it would allow the use of implements that sport hunters are not allowed to use to pursue the feral hogs. They might even allow the use of helicopters to locate and shoot the hogs. Imagine how much ground a market hunter could cover if it turned out to be a proftable venture. The pilot and the shooter fly around killing hogs and then radio the coordinates to the ground crew that come and pick them up with trucks and ATV's. Just take a look at market hunting of waterfowl, etc. that I posted above in response to Bulletpusher and Skeet. Again, if there is a demand for the meat, hide, etc. and the hunters can turn a profit, I'm willing to be that they would put one heck of a hurt on feral hogs.

I bet nobody would have dreamed that commercial fishermen would be able to fish the seas dry of fish, but it is happening. Believe me, when there is a profit to be had, man will exploit it.

[skeet]

It has merely been pointed out that the buffalo were wiped out for more than a commerciql reason. And of course fish and other natural resources are being over exploited. We all know what you are pointing out..but..tell us all how the US commercial fishing fleets are doing that?? US Fabs. We can not control other countries and what they do to the environment and wildfife populations.. We have control over our own borders. The Canada Goose hunting was curtailed on the east coast(Atlantic population) for quite a few years. There was an unforeseen over harvest and an unforessen under recruitment of young..meaning that the geese were losing numbers. They were not able to keep the numbers up because of several years of unsuccessful breeding attempts. The reduction of numbers wasn't due solely to market hunting as you seem to be pointing out. They were overhunted(not just in the US) at the same time they were unsuccessful in breeding due to weather. Market hunting of waterfowl and other shorebirds was stopped in 1918 I think. Was it wrong to market hunt?? To our way of thinking now it was..but in it's heyday ...doubtful. Remember Fabs..When did we reach the goal of 100 million people in this country? Heck we didn't reach 200 million until the 1960's..and it has gone downhill for all species of wildlife since then..except for the ones that sports men and women have helped through the P-R taxes they helped initiate..and through organizations such as DU and others supporting game such as quail turkey pheasant deer and Elk. There really is NO such thing as any organized "market hunting" any longer. At least on any large scale. Tell me how the Petas and HSUSA are helping all of the animals in this country. You know talking about the buffalo..there used to be wolves that followed the herds around. Those same wolves were still in the area around Yellowstone. Not here now though. They were smaller than the Da*N wolves that lobbyist got introduced. Guess what killed 'em off?? My neighboor saw wolves regularly before the wolf introduction. It was NOT a re-introduction. And all the no fur people..many furbearers are predators. Guess how the wild bird populations are fairing in some areas. Those people complain about the wearing of fur while the reduction of trapping has killed 50 times the population of critters. As I said, Fabs..how many geese are there in PG County?? In 1955 they figured there were about 20,000 Canada Geese wintering in Md. Bet there are more in PG now

Now tell us how hunters are going to hurt the pork industry and wipe out feral hogs.... Lets kill the feral hog and let 'em lay..a waste but it certainly won't hurt the pork industry..anymore than deer hunting hurts the beef industry. The feral hog problem and the horse problems in this country have occurred because of political meddling into things that shouldn't have happend. Horses are such a glut on the market right now it is unbelievable. You can hardly sell a horse..and you surely can't slaughter them. That is why there are so many horses..Ya can't put 'em down even for dog food. Horse meat is eaten in many countries including Canadaand used to be eaten here too (Mickey D's??). It is now ILLEGAL to ship horses across the Canadian border to have them slaughtered for food.. Sheesh Fabs. Our governing bodies have put the country in this position because of undue pressure from lobbying groups. Again lobbyists and politicians..people using the law to get their own way. And most of those people are..lawyers!! In case you were wondering...that was a little dig at some of your...friends and associates. hahaha

[fabsroman]

Alright, we have about 8 million different subjects in this post.

Atlantic population of canada geese. My point was that regulation is necessary sometimes. That was my point. Plain and simple. My point wasn't that hunting brought about that matter, but that continued hunting would not have helped it. Sometimes, heck most of the time, government regulation is a good thing. Then, there are the times when government goes too far.

On to the horses. I have no idea what the current laws are regarding horses, and I have no inclination to do any research on them tonight, tomorrow, or this entire week for that matter. I had a PM discussion last year with a rancher on here that owns a 20,000 acre ranch. He wasn't a regular, but it was a good PM discussion. I believe it had to do with elk eating all the food he put out for his cattle. I cannot remember the entire debate, but we had a good time debating it. Anyway, sometimes some laws benefit the many and hurt a few. That kind of stuff needs to be taken into account too. On another board I just finished debating mandatory gun locks, gun safes, and extremely harsh penalties for those that did not use them because some guy wants to prevent accidental deaths to children. Well, I looked up the statistics and all of 1,000 kids from 0 to 18 years of age die each year from accidental gun shots, and not all of those occur in the home where the locks and safes would be worth anything. So, is preventing the majority of these deaths by requiring the mandatory use of locks and safes, and imposing harsh penalties worth the burden to society (i.e., are the few that are harmed worth the cost as a whole).

Would wiping out the horses be worth it? How was it that wolves were pretty much wiped out from the continental US? That couldn't have been all from bears now could it?

Ultimately, if the horses are out of control, I do think they should be controlled. If shooting them and making dog food out of them would work, so be it. However, that puts a market element to it and it could cause some issues. How much would a dog food company be willing to pay for 100 pounds of horse meat? How much profit could the hunter turn? Could these horses be rounded up and just slaughtered in a pen? Would the market hunter be able to make a fortune doing that?

Here is a novel idea. How about letting the USFWS do the killing and selling. The US government can sell this resource to the dog food companies and the American people can receive the benefit with these funds being put back towards additional habitat or the USFWS.